[00:00:00]
Too bad it can’t stay like that all the time. Nothing gold can stay, huh? Nature’s for screen is gold. Her heart is you to hold
her early leaves of flower. I, but only someone out that leaves subsides to leaf. So Eaton Saint to grieve.
So Tom goes down today, nothing gold this day.
Todd: What’d you learn that? Oh, Johnny. Oh, pony boy. Oh, pony boy. [00:01:00] Welcome back to our second officials and pop parenting podcast where Gen
Cathy: X pop culture meets real life reflection. So you guys know what we’re doing here? You didn’t do the clapping baby. There it is. I didn’t know when. Oh, I didn’t know that. We’re, we’re still figuring out where, where the clapping goes.
Cathy: That’s right. Maybe we should just clap a lot. But, so what are we doing here? Mindful living and emotional awareness through the music, movies and moments that shaped us. That’s right. That’s what we’re here. And. This one that we’re doing today. Yeah. It’s deep us. I was
Todd: excited, I was very excited to do this podcast.
Todd: And then you and I watched it on Friday Night Uhhuh, and I am very excited to talk about my excitement.
Cathy: Okay. So you, we watched what
Todd: We watched, uh, the Outsiders, but Yeah. Excited. But it’s a different, uh, version of it and it’s called Complete Novel. Yeah. And they added 20 to 25 minutes. Uh, the final cut, according to Francis Ford Coppola was around two hours and then the studio’s like, Nope, you [00:02:00] gotta cut 25 minutes out of it.
Todd: So they did. So, but we, you and I watched the longer one,
Cathy: I think, and we did, but that’s irrelevant. If you haven’t seen it, it doesn’t matter. You we’re gonna talk about the Outsiders, so if the whatever movie version you saw is fine. Um, but the thing is, is I think it’s okay that they cut out that 20 minutes.
Cathy: ’cause I don’t think what we got. New really added. I actually think that just to kind of jump in with a hot take right away, that they added a scene at the end where all three boys, like, remember soda pop, like runs away from the house. That really distracted from the end. Totally. So I was like, okay, I’m glad you cut that out.
Cathy: Yes. So I do know that Rob Lowe was kind of bummed ’cause he had a lot more scenes mm-hmm. Which we saw in this different cut and they were, most of ’em were cut. Yeah. So he was pretty surprised that he wasn’t in the movie.
Todd: Um, here’s what I wanna do because, um, you and I have been thinking about this for a week or so, Uhhuh, uh, I just wanna remind people of who is in this movie.
Cathy: So aren’t we setting the scene?
Todd: Uh, yeah, let’s set the scene. Why don’t we.[00:03:00]
Cathy: Set the scene, baby.
Todd: All right, so this is a movie that was made in 1983, or at least that’s when it came out. Um, the cast is kind of amazing. Uhhuh c Thomas Howells Pony Boy. Matt Dylan is Dallas Winston. Ralph Macchio is Johnny. Mm-hmm. Patrick Swayze plays Daryl Rob Lowe is Soda Pop. Emilio Estevez is two bit Matthews.
Todd: Tom Cruise is Steve Randall. And then, let’s see. Diane Lane is Cherry, valance, leaf, Garrett is in it. Leaf. Um, and then a handful of people that you probably don’t remember that well. More like that guys. Yeah. Most, a lot like people. You might know a lot of that guys. Um, so yeah, that’s who was in it. But I, I do wanna create a little space to.
Todd: Talk about my [00:04:00] experience and your experience of the book and the movie.
Cathy: Well, that’s later. That’s next. That’s remember when. Oh, okay. We’re still in. Set the scene. Okay. Got it. You gotta, you gotta stay with our topic here. I’m staying. So basically, um, this, at this point in time in Hollywood, there was kind of, teen stuff was beginning.
Cathy: Mm-hmm. Okay. So like Fast Times Ridgemont High came out, porkies came out. So those were a little more like, you know, very R-rated. Yeah. But also the movie Annie came out, grease two, one of my favorites. Yikes. Love Grease Two. And so The Outsiders was kind of like this, there was a lot of excitement about this movie coming out because it was emotional and it was gonna be, you know, if you guys know the story, if you’ve read the book, it’s super gritty.
Cathy: And, um, so many kids had read this book. Yeah. So. In middle school. I read it in seventh
Todd: grade. When did you read The Outsiders? I have no idea, but probably sometime around when the movie came out, which was when I was in fifth or sixth grade. And
Cathy: then the last thing was setting the scene, unless you have something else, is that this was, if you listen to last [00:05:00] week when we talked about MTV and Video Killed the Radio Star, um, that was, that launched in 1981 and this movie came out in 1983.
Cathy: So we were just like, we were gravitating toward edgier kind of content, you know, um, you know, think the police were big then and Thriller was coming out and David Bowie, like everything was becoming a little more edgy. Um, so now all these kids who had been reading this book in school, now get to see this movie.
Cathy: As Todd said with the, with huge stars that we’re gonna get in deeper into all of these characters and all these actors, um, and actresses. But that’s kind of the basics.
Todd: It a few movies that were dominating the box office in 1983, you’ve already mentioned a few of them. Return to The Jedi. Yes. Flash dance and war games just to kind of bring everybody back.
Cathy: So that’s where we were in youth culture in 1983. So, and now we’re gonna.[00:06:00]
You couldn’t wait,
Todd: sweetie. What do you remember when, as far as this movie goes, I, I have a few important things to share.
Cathy: I will say, I’m gonna kind of jump it into the middle of what I remember, which was, so these guys who were in this movie, all the guys that you just named, they were on the cover of Tiger Beat, teen Beat 17, uh, ym, teen Dynamite bop.
Cathy: Um, there’s one more. But all these magazines that were like huge at the time that I used to buy, I’d go to Lehan Drugs and buy all these magazines, right? And then in the middle of these magazines were, um, the Centerfold. The Centerfold, right? So not necessarily in YM and 17, they didn’t have it, but in the Teen beat and the, um, tiger Beat.
Cathy: And, but every page had a picture of one of these guys. And so my bedroom. Was covered in posters of these boys.
Todd: I was just kidding. I is. Did they really have a centerfold? Like where Yeah, it was like a three pager, of course. Oh, I didn’t [00:07:00] know that.
Cathy: And so sometimes it was one person. Mm-hmm. Sometimes it was like a group of people and you know, but throughout the magazine there would be an eight by 10, so it would be at least be one full page.
Cathy: Yeah. And then the centerfold, the one that you could like, you know, get out was just bigger.
Yeah.
Cathy: And my whole bedroom. Was covered with these boys. So for me specifically, and for you just being a year younger, it’s a huge coming of age movie. Yeah. For us too, because it was like, these were the first guys.
Cathy: I mean, I liked Sean Cassidy in elementary school and Andy Gibb and a few other people, but seventh grade was when I was like, I like these boys. So out of these boys,
Todd: young men, Uhhuh, who did you have the biggest crush on?
Cathy: Well, because of the movie, there was a lot of c Thomas Howell, you know? Because he was the protagonist, right?
Cathy: Yeah. It was the person that we are made to love is about him.
Todd: He’s the narrator.
Cathy: Yes. I can tell you, I could probably go through the people that I didn’t like as much. Okay, go ahead. Johnny was rough for me because of the kind of character he played in it where I was kind of like, [00:08:00] he seemed. Sad and he didn’t, you know, like there was just the character of gun cake.
Cathy: He was always looking down. Correct. Um, I also was afraid of, uh, Matt Dillon’s character. Mm-hmm. I was afraid of Dally, um, meaning he felt so much older to me. Mm-hmm. Um, I would say that Rob Lowe for sure, he played Soda Pop was the most attractive.
Todd: Yeah. Um, Tom Cruise didn’t start getting better looking until he became a more of an adult.
Cathy: Yeah. We kinda learned that Tom Cruise was in risky business this same year. Yeah. Which is crazy to me. But I was not attracted to uh, two Bit or Steve, or, and definitely Patrick Swayze seemed so much older. ’cause that’s Ponies older brother. He was like
Todd: 29 when Patrick Swayze. In this movie, acting. In this movie.
Cathy: So I think Pony Boy was probably my guy.
Todd: Really. And just a quick pause on names of these characters. Uhhuh Sie Hinton, uh, she wrote this book when she was 16. Yeah. Um, but these are the names Pony Boy, Curtis, Dallas, Winston, Johnny Cade, Darrell Curtis Soda Pop, Curtis [00:09:00] Tbit Matthews. Those are great names.
Cathy: Well, and I think now you tell me, those of you who have read the book recently, tell me if I’m correct, but while Pony Boy and Soda Pop and um, uh, Darrell.
Yeah.
Cathy: Those were their real names, but I think Twoit is a nickname. Nickname.
Todd: I don’t know.
Cathy: I, I don’t think all of them. ’cause then there’s Steve.
Todd: Yeah. You
Cathy: know, and not everybody had it.
Cathy: Yeah. She
Todd: doesn’t go crazy on all of them. Just a lot of them. And Johnny. Um, and And Dallas
Cathy: is a great name. Yeah. Then they Dally. Yeah.
Todd: Dallas, Winston. And I always thought it was interesting, it was Daryl and Dairy, Daryl and Dally, and I remember getting confused in the book like, okay, which one are we talking about here?
Todd: Totally.
Cathy: Soder is Patrick Swayze. Dally is Bat Dylan. Now I will tell you this, like I know we’re still in, remember when? Yeah. But I will just add really quickly that watching it again, Matt Dill. Sorry. Got it. Like for sure. Yeah. He’s the most now. Not the way he treats Cherry necessarily. No, we’re just talking [00:10:00] crush.
Cathy: But he’s the most attractive guy in that movie to me.
Todd: Interesting To me. I figured you’d say, uh, to, um. Soda pop, soda
Cathy: pop. I, well, it’s almost too easy. It’s kind of a toss up there. It’s just about, again, not Dali’s behavior, but it’s just now looking at it from being an older person. Yeah. It’s like he’s just a beautiful Matt Dillon.
Cathy: My goodness. Geez Louise. All these guys. Okay, so you
Todd: ready? Uh, yeah. Uh, can I start my, my quick, uh, story on this book? So this is still, are you still remembering what this Remember? Okay. So
Cathy: you remember. So here’s my memories
Todd: of this book. Oh, should, I’m gonna, just so we
Cathy: know where we are, we gotta remember when,
Todd: I remember when, um, I, I saw this movie with my buddies and then I told them that I liked the book better and they made so much fun of me familiar.
Todd: They’re like, what was in the, what was in the book that wasn’t in the movie. And then they started being like, yeah, but you can’t read about the Rumble. You [00:11:00] gotta see the Rumble. ’cause the rumble was so cool. And I’m, I’m gonna stand firm. Like the book was better than the movie. And we’ll talk about the movie for the next hour or so, but.
Todd: Um, that was my one thing. And then my other thing is when I was in sixth grade, I was in football and I hurt my leg. Uh, going up against IC in the championship game,
Cathy: IC is
Todd: immaculate conception. Mm-hmm. And I had to come out and I, my dad ended up carrying me to the car because I hurt my knee so bad.
Todd: Mm-hmm. And one of the, my football, um. Teammates said We gotta do it for Todd. Kinda like we’re doing it for Johnny. Okay. And then my friend Dan was making fun of my friend Tom who said that.
Cathy: Yeah. I don’t know if it’s quite the same since Johnny saved children and got burned and then died. Right. Um, it was
Todd: a really, it was a very cheesy line for, for him to say that they had to do it for me ’cause I was being carried out the field.
Todd: Yeah. And my last [00:12:00] memory is, it was, I feel like this was like my first book I read for fun.
Cathy: Mm. You didn’t have to read it for school? I
Todd: don’t
Cathy: think so. Oh, I, I had to read it for school and do kids
Todd: have to read it for school still?
Cathy: Yeah. That’s why the whole, oh, still good question. I know that my girls have read the book, but I don’t know if that’s true in every curriculum.
Cathy: Yeah. I don’t know where the outsiders lands these days. Yeah. But for us, we definitely had to. Um, and so, and, and I’ll add something to that, but I think it falls under random facts
Todd: before we go to random facts. Okay. I just want to say, can you think of any ensemble casts that. Is superior to this movie because I did a little research and I have a few.
Cathy: Well, yeah, I think that this movie was the Avengers of its time. You know what I mean? Like this was an eighties version of Avengers. Yeah. You have all these actors that you know, and they’re all coming together and you, they, you know, they all have their own stories or you’ve seen ’em in other things and then all of a sudden they are in [00:13:00] this amazing ensemble.
Cathy: So I think The Avengers has that kind of catch. That’s a good answer. Um, do you want me to come up with more, uh, you come up with one more
Todd: and then I’ll sell, give you my list.
Cathy: Um, let me see if I can come up with more, because some of them are like spread out. Like the Star Wars world. Yeah. All in one movie.
Cathy: Yeah. All. So all in one movie. I’m looking around my office because um, you got a lot of movie. I got a lot of movie posters and I wanna see if, I mean. Uh, like the Breakfast Club, but that’s, some of these guys are in the Brat Pack. Yeah, there’s only
Todd: four of them.
Cathy: Okay. Tell me,
Todd: uh, the Departed. Okay. Good one.
Todd: Yes. You got Leo, you got Matt Damon, Jack Nicholson, mark Wagar, mark Wahlberg, Marty Sheen, and Alec Baldwin. That’s really good. Uh, Magnolia. Yes. Good one. Tom Cruise. Julia Moore, Phillips, Seymour Hoffman. William h Macy, and John C. Reilly. So on that, no Boogie Nights, right? Yeah. Um, you got the Avengers. You already talked about that.
Todd: Think about that. Robert Downey Jr. Chris Evans. Scarlet Johanson. Mark Ruffo. Chris Evans Worth. Jeremy Runner. Ocean’s 11. Good one. Yeah. And Ocean Date? [00:14:00] Brad Pitt. Matt Damon. Julia Roberts. Don Cheadle. Andy Garcia. Uh, you talked about Oceans Eight. Mm-hmm. Who is in that? Who are the, that’s
Cathy: Anne Hathaway. Kate Blanche.
Cathy: Um, um, let me think about some of the other, is Mindy Kaling in that movie? Is that right? No. Um, I can’t remember, but there’s eight of ’em.
Todd: And then last one is, we can’t forget about Heat, sweetie. Al Pacino. Robert DeNiro? No. Val Kilmer. Tom Sizemore. Ashley Judd, John Voight.
Cathy: I don’t know if Heat. I love heat and we love that movie, but I can’t say that Tom Sizemore is like the same as, you know.
Cathy: Like seeing the outsiders together. True.
Todd: It’s really top heavy. Pacino De Niro. Vel Kilmore.
Cathy: Vel Kilmore,
Todd: Val Vel. Kilmore. Um, I feel like there’s other famous people in Keith. Well, like you said, Ashley, John, boy.
Cathy: Oh, John. Yeah. Um. Uh, tone Lo.
Todd: What, what’s an ensemble without tone? Lo. Yeah. Um, okay. [00:15:00] Eight pounds.
Todd: This is our random facts. Random facts we
Cathy: play as we’re going those more than once. Sure. So people know where we are. Eight pounds. Alright, what do you got for random facts? Okay. So random fact, a librarian made this movie happen. That’s what I wanted to, how’s that big one I wanted to share? So a group of middle school students in Fresno, California wrote a letter to Francis Ford Coppola asking him to turn their favorite book into a film.
Cathy: And their librarian, Joe Ellen, miss. Miss sent the book along with their petition. So basically kids were reading this book and they’re like, we wanna see this on screen. And they made it happen. And this is not just a random fact that we heard about. They say that at the end of the movie. Gary,
do you know the human head?
Todd: It’s my turn. Um. There was a TV series based on the characters of this novel in 1990. Did you remember it? Did you know that in
Cathy: 1990 who was in it?
Todd: Uh, it doesn’t say he was in it, but it consisted of different cast playing the same characters. It picks up right after the events of the [00:16:00] film’s ending and only lasted one season.
Todd: I do not remember that. All right, your
Cathy: turn. Okay, so this is kind of a little switch. I’m gonna go back to Sie Hinton. Let’s talk about women who used initials to avoid gender bias. Yes. Okay. Because Sie Hinton is a woman, if you didn’t already know. Um, and she wrote under these initials because she didn’t want male reviewers to dismiss her book.
Cathy: Mm-hmm. Right? She was very young, as Todd said when she wrote it. We got JK Rowling. Who wrote Harry Potter? You know, she’s a little contr, more controversial than she used to be. Um, but her publisher told her to use initials to appeal to young male vote, uh, young male readers. I was gonna say voters, um, pl Traver, who wrote Mary Poppins.
Cathy: That was a woman. Her name was Helen Goff. She used initials to not have her gender be known because the, you know, literary world was so male dominated. Um, a woman named CJ Cherry, she was a science fiction author. I don’t know her work, I’m gonna be honest. I’m just throwing it in there. Mm-hmm. Because I.[00:17:00]
Cathy: You know, founded as I was doing this research, um, and then this is a little different, this isn’t initials, but Harper Lee. Yeah, there you go. Um, to kill a Mockingbird like that could have been male, even though, um, she dropped her first name, uh, which was Nell because she didn’t want to, uh, she wanted to sidestep the gender bias.
Cathy: So that are, that is interesting. Just to keep in mind, this is from a different time, but there are still people who write under either pseudonyms or initials because they don’t wanna deal with people saying. No. What, you know, so many times when a woman writes a book, it’s like, well, that’s a woman’s book.
Cathy: That’s romantic fiction. That’s they, they genre them to death. And if a man writes a book, it’s just accepted as being normal. Now that is a generalization. That’s not always the case, but it is a trap that we can fall into in the literary world. Can I go next? You go. Uh,
Todd: other, uh, people who auditioned for roles.
Todd: I have that too. Timothy Hutton, Sean Penn, Mickey Rourke, Anthony, Michael Hall, Scott Bao, and [00:18:00] Dennis Quaid. I had more, I had Nicholas
Cathy: Cage. Okay. That he auditioned for Dally. Um, he was also offered two bit, oh, by the way, two bits. Real name is Keith. Oh, there you go. Keith Tbit Matthews. And you said Val Kilmer.
Cathy: Mickey Rourke. Uh, Mickey Rourke would’ve been a great dally.
Yeah.
Cathy: Mickey Rourke, by the way, was just on, um, big Brother in the uk. Mm-hmm. And Jojo Siwa was in there too. And you know, but it was in the uk. It wasn’t here. And he was awful. Like I, I saw all these clips, like a
Todd: mean person,
Cathy: just really inappropriate and very like, like especially with her, like talking about her sexuality and that he could turn her into, you know, being straight and that he was just very inappropriate.
Cathy: That’s too bad. I know, and it’s one of those things where Mickey work is one of those actors that you and I have grown up with where he had some really good roles, you know, like where, um, he was in diner.
Yeah.
Cathy: You know, and obviously if you’ve [00:19:00] nine and a half weeks, angel heart. You know, some of the roles were really gritty and dark.
Cathy: Um, but then, you know, things went not so great for him. But then he came back with the wrestler.
Mm-hmm.
Cathy: Which was a really great movie. And it’s like, oh good. He is turning his life around and then I haven’t seen him for a while and then all of a sudden I’m seeing these tiktoks of him being kind of a jerk.
Cathy: It’s sad. I know. I was sad about it. Um, you already said Sean pe Scott Bayo. Oh, and I read that Brooke Shields was offered Cherry. Did you read that? No, I did not. It said Brooke Shields was offered cherry valance, but dropped out to
Todd: pursue another project. So anyway, um, in the poster for the film, the greasers are laughing as Johnny is smirking.
Todd: This candid shot was taken during the photo session where the actors were supposed to look tough at the camera. What happened was that when Leaf Garrett went to the table, Ralph Macchio said, Hey Leaf, that’s for the talent. And the comment cracked up the cast and the photo was used.
Cathy: That’s a great photo.
Cathy: Do we, I wish this was more visual ’cause we could show them the photo. Hey, speaking of, do you wanna like, give an overview of what [00:20:00] this story is about? Uh, like I feel like we haven’t, I, I have it. Uh, sure, go ahead. Because I kind of feel like for those of you who are like, I don’t remember what the plot of the outsiders is.
Cathy: It’s 1960s small, unnamed American town. It’s divided by class image opportunity. There’s a lot of tension in the town. You can feel the lines drawn between the greasers and the sos. SOAs stands for the socials, but they just shortened it to sos South side. Sos. Yes. So the greasers are kids from the working class side of town.
Cathy: They have long hair, leather jackets, et cetera. Their defenses are pretty high. They stick together like family ’cause they don’t really have anything else. And then on the other side are the soc, the soss. They’re well dressed, they have money, privilege, they get away with everything. Uh, the air is very thick with misunderstanding and anger and a desperate need to belong.
Cathy: But the protagonist or the heart of the story is Pony Boy Curtis. He’s a more thoughtful greaser. He reads poetry, watches, sunsets as you guys listen to at the beginning [00:21:00] of this podcast. And, um, he knows. He has, he has a bigger picture for what’s going on. And you know what? So does Johnny. Mm-hmm. Like Johnny, you know, spoiler, uh, Johnny dies.
Cathy: But Johnny is very aware that this should not all be happening, all this violence on the street. So yeah, I feel like we should
Todd: be, uh, so it’s, it doesn’t happen over that many days. So day one is you get to meet the characters, Uhhuh, and then somehow they go to the movies. And Dally is kind of mean to the girls, to Cherry to Cherry and her friends.
Todd: And then on the way home from the movie, the SOS get there and there’s almost a standoff between the two of ’em. But then Cherry kind of.
Cathy: Well, the Pony Boy and, um, Johnny and Johnny are at the movie sitting behind Cherry and her friend. And then when Dolly’s being a jerk to Cherry, they say, dally, stop it.
Cathy: Yeah. And he leaves. So they kind of end up walking them home, which is where Cherry and Pony boy start [00:22:00] having deeper conversations. Now, question, I don’t know if we should do this under random facts, but did you think that Cherry had any interest in Pony Boy?
Todd: Uh, romantically? Yes. No.
Cathy: Okay.
Todd: You didn’t? No, I did not.
Todd: I was, she liked Dally, but which is strange why the girls like the bad boy. I, yeah,
Cathy: I guess, I guess that’s what’s being written in there. But he was such a jerk to her.
Todd: So then later that night, uh, Johnny tries to go home. His parents have no interest in welcoming him, him home so that he decides to sleep outside.
Todd: So they fall asleep. And then do the associates come right then and there?
Cathy: Are you ready for my hot take?
Todd: Let’s hear it.
Cathy: Okay. So we, we’re gonna do WTF moment in a second, but here’s my hottest take. Are you ready? You got a sound effect for a hot take? I don’t think I Do we need some, we need a some fire or something?
Cathy: Yeah. Okay. Find something for me. All right. Pretend. Make the sound okay. The hot take is all of this is pony boy’s fault. Oh, wow. Okay. Here’s why. He [00:23:00] and Johnny are walking together. They’re walking home. They are outside. Sleeping outside? Mm-hmm. Okay. They fall asleep. Pony boy wakes up, realizes he needs to get home because he and Dar are not getting along very well, and he’s like, I gotta get home right.
Cathy: Then he’s like, Johnny, Johnny’s like, I’m not going home. I’m gonna sleep out here. Have Johnny come home with you? Yeah. Okay. First of all, he, I think he says something later, like, if you don’t have anywhere to go, come. But say, Johnny, come with me right now. Yeah. Okay. He doesn’t do that First Pony boy mistake.
Cathy: He gets home. Dairy freaks out because he didn’t know where Pony Boy was. He can’t call the police or else dairy’s gonna get in trouble. And he’s afraid that soda pop and pony will end up in like a boy’s home. So he’s like, there’s nothing I can do about it. He ends up hitting Pony Boy, which to me looks more like a push in the movie, but it wasn’t too bad.
Cathy: But yeah. But anyway, pony Boy is so upset. He runs. Back to where Johnny’s sleeping, wakes him up and says, let’s go to the park. Yeah, [00:24:00] let’s go walk. So they walk to the park when they have been told, now this is a deleted scene. But in the book we know they have been told Quit walking alone guys. Yeah. Stop doing that.
Cathy: Yeah.
Todd: There’s trouble out there
Cathy: because Johnny about, uh, like a couple weeks before had been jumped by a bunch of sos who had rings. Yeah. Which we find out. That was Leaf Garrett. And he had been hit, he had like a cut on his face. He had already gotten beat up. So his, the older guys are like, guys, quit walking alone.
Cathy: So soda pop’s like, let’s go to the park. Well guess what? The sos show up. And they’re not only drunk soda pop. Didn’t say that Pony Boy said that. You
Todd: said Soda Pop. Pony Boy said Let’s go to the park.
Cathy: Oh, sorry. Pony Boy said Let’s go to the park. Soda pop isn’t even part of this. No. So Pony Boy and Johnny end up at the park, Soia show up.
Cathy: They’re drunk and they’re pissed that Pony and Johnny had walked, walked Cherry home. Yeah. So it’s just a loaded. Loaded gun, for lack of a better way of saying it. And that was Pony’s fault too. Yeah. Going there.
Todd: Okay. What, what wasn’t Pony’s fault is him almost getting drowned. So Johnny, correct. Uh, so the associates [00:25:00] are trying to drowned Pony boy Johnny Stabs.
Todd: Bob kills him. Yes. They go ask Dally for help. Dally says, go to this church. So they hang out at this church for a few days. Uh, pony boy, uh, bleaches his hair blonde. Johnny takes all the grease out of his hair and then they go eat because they’ve been eating bologna sandwiches all week. When they get back, there’s a fire pony boy, and Johnny and Dallas get to the fire.
Cathy: Number three reason. This is all pony boy’s fault. Now I understand in the big picture, you wanna save kids and do the right thing. He’s the one who runs into that church.
Todd: Is he first? Yeah. This one
Cathy: in Pony runs in first. Oh, okay. And Johnny’s like, wait, what are you doing? And then runs after him. Then Dally comes third.
Yeah.
Cathy: So those are three times when if Pony had made a different decision.
Yeah.
Cathy: Johnny might still be here. Sorry for all the pony boy people c Thomas Howell fans. Yeah, it’s just something I noticed this time.
Todd: Johnny’s in the hospital, they’re viewed as heroes. There’s a rumble. The greasers beat the sos [00:26:00] Johnny dies.
Todd: Um, his last words to pony boy are stay gold pony boy. Stay gold, dali’s, devastated. Robs a store, gets shot, dies. And then there’s a little bit of, you know, I don’t know, closing the loop.
Cathy: So I feel like I have another hot take, but do we have, do we wanna get into it later? Just remind me. ’cause I wanna talk a little bit about Dally and Johnny.
Cathy: Okay. Okay. So let’s do the next, are we still on wfs?
Todd: Uh, yeah. I’m just trying to see if there’s anything particularly that, uh, good. Uh, during filming, Rob Lowe asked as he hit and what happens to soda pop hit and responded that soda pop was drafted to Vietnam and died there. That doesn’t surprise me at all.
Todd: Oh boy. Um, you already said that one. Tom Cruise. Can we talk about Tom Cruise standing back? His, his back flip. He keeps doing, we’re not, we gotta go to WTF. Okay. You’re still in random facts. Okay. I didn’t know that. That’s where you put it, sweetie. Boy, that escalated quickly. I mean, that really got outta hand [00:27:00] fast.
Todd: It jumped up a notch. It did, didn’t it? It did, didn’t it? What do you got for the WTF moments? Well,
Cathy: now put, now talk about Tom
Todd: Cruise. Uh, which part? His, his, just his whatever back flips. Whatever. WTF Tom Cruise. Uh, in a scene where the boys are in the street getting excited about the rumble, Tom Cruise does a standing back tuck from the top of the truck.
Todd: Patrick Swayze coached him beforehand on how to do it. Right before filming the scene, cruise nervously approached writer Sie Hinton said he was afraid. First of all, when was, when has Tom Cruise ever been afraid of anything? Maybe
Cathy: then.
Todd: Uh, he would be unable to do it because he felt nauseous from overeating at lunch.
Todd: Hinton asked him if he thought he would feel better if he threw up. Tom Cruise said he thought so. So Hinton took him back to the food truck and made him drink raw eggs. There’s no way This is true. Okay.
Cathy: This is, so I’d got none of that. There’s
Todd: no way that that’s true.
Cathy: That’s WTF times 10.
Todd: Yeah. No doubt about it.
Todd: Um, I, but, but we never see Tom Cruise land. The back flip. And I think he does it
Cathy: twice, doesn’t he? Well, one was a deleted scene. Okay. At the very beginning he does the back flip. He actually [00:28:00] falls. Mm-hmm. And, but he’s like showing that he’s practicing.
Yeah.
Cathy: And then as they’re coming out to do the rumble, two people do gymnastics kind of things.
Cathy: One is Patrick Swayze. Yeah. Which, ’cause we know he’s a dancer. Um, and he does this whole like handstand on the fence. Right. And then Tom Cruise does the back flip and you do not see him land it. Yeah. Which again is very Tom Cruise. This was way before Scientology. This was before his like, you know, huge, um, he, like, he hadn’t even risky Business hadn’t even come out yet.
Cathy: So this was way before, but it kind of sets a stage for him, you know, being in the color of money and learning pool and flying planes and Top Gun and, um, driving cars in Days of Thunder and doing all of his stunts for Mission Impossible. Like he always takes it up a notch.
Yeah.
Cathy: Um, but I, uh. I did, I also laugh because a movie that I watch a lot, if I just need something in the background is the movie.
Cathy: The Firm. Yeah. And the firm is also a book, um, [00:29:00] a John Grisham book, and Tom Cruise is in it. And there’s a scene in the firm. That it’s not even, I don’t even know why they put it in here. Like where Tom Cruise is walking down the street with his wife. He’s just moving to Nashville for this new law job and to be a lawyer in this firm, and this kid does this backflip.
Cathy: And so all of a sudden Tom Cruise joins him and does a back flip with him. Hmm. And the, the lore or the history is that he actually, for that scene, learned how to do that backflip and it’s completely unnecessary. Yeah. Except for later when he, everything kind of falls to crap and he’s realizes he’s in a lot of trouble.
Cathy: He’s on the same street and the kid does a backflip and Tom Cruise doesn’t join him. But I think there’s a million ways to demonstrate. You’re sad
Todd: Tom Cruise wanting to, uh, do a back show off a little bit. Yeah. So it’s very WTF. What else do you have? Uh, WTF,
Cathy: so you kind of already said it, but it’s still WTF, which is the fact that Pony Boy bleaches his hair and Johnny doesn’t
Todd: Yeah.
Cathy: So WWTF. Yeah, [00:30:00] exactly. Like we don’t, we
Todd: They both, does Johnny
Cathy: look that different? Yeah.
Todd: They both got a Yeah. And then they cut their hair, sort of, but it’s kind of the, the, the disguise isn’t really doing much, especially they’re not leaving the church anyways.
Cathy: I know. I, and I, that’s the thing. I think the only time they went out was to get the food.
Cathy: Yeah. And that was Johnny before he cut his hair. Right? Like they cut their hair when they came back. So like, Johnny’s like, come on pony. You’re gonna have to bleach your hair. I’m gonna take the grease outta my hair. Yeah. It’s like, why do you get to keep your hair color? And he doesn’t. Yeah. Um, so another WTF is at the cast as you, you probably read this, they were, while filming, they were divided up Yeah.
Cathy: Into different living quarters. So all the soc, the sos, um, no interaction between the Yep.
Todd: Two groups.
Cathy: And they lived better
Todd: Yeah.
Cathy: Than the greasers did. Right. So they were trying to create that sense of animosity, um, on the, you know, on the set. So. Zen parenting
Todd: and this is, uh, the middle [00:31:00] of the show where we talk a little bit about the deeper aspects of it Yeah. And the parental guidance aspect of it. And what did this movie teach us? So let’s start with, let’s, let’s roll in the deep for a little bit.
Todd: What do you got for rolling in the Deeps, Katie?
Cathy: Okay. So obviously this is a movie in a book about class and identity, the division between the SOS and the Greasers, how we judge people based on appearance, background, wealth, how much of our identity is shaped by where we come from. Um, so like, my big question, Todd, how often do we let someone’s background define how we see them?
Cathy: It’s such a, or how we see ourselves. Mm-hmm. Like to get deeper, like it’s such a theme of so many eighties movies. Like, we can, I’ll, I’ll think of two. Like, you know. The Breakfast Club, obviously those people in the Breakfast Club, all those characters are literally divided up by their social status. Yeah.
Cathy: If [00:32:00] it be, you know, Molly Ringwald wealth or the fact that Bender comes from nothing. Right. You know, and that this is part of their privilege also. Um, do you remember the movie? Some Kind of Wonderful. Of course. So, Amanda Jones, who is, um. What’s her name? Who plays her? She’s from, uh, back to the Future. Yeah.
Cathy: Too.
Yeah.
Cathy: What’s her name? Uh, her name. I know her daughter’s name and I don’t, Zoe Deutsche is her daughter. Um, blah. Okay. Look out for, for me. Zoe Deutsch’s mom. Zoe Deutsch’s mom. Anyway, we know it. It’s just we’re having a brain fart. So anyway, she, Amanda Jones’ character. Is she, the whole thing is about how she lives on the other side of the tracks and she’s dating this popular guy because it gives her social status.
Cathy: And then Leah Thompson. Leah Thompson. Thank you. Um, so, you know, and the whole thing is then this other guy likes her, the Eric Stotts character, and tells her to just be who she is, whatever social status, big in the eighties, big in every movie, you know, who are you and where you come from defines who you are.
Cathy: Pretty and pink for [00:33:00] sure. Right? Mm-hmm. You know, she doesn’t even want Blaine to pick her up at her house, right? Because she doesn’t feel like she has the right house.
Todd: Blaine, his name is Blaine.
Cathy: And then what next?
Todd: Uh, what did you say? Bla isn’t a name. It’s a, an appliance or something? It’s an appliance, yeah.
Cathy: Uh, so, you know, this is so for us, like, tell me, I am gonna go deep with you. We’re rolling in the deep, you ready? How did you feel in high school? Like what was your thoughts about social status? Um, I to kind of a privileged school,
Todd: uh, I grew up on the northwest side of Chicago, so I wasn’t in the suburbs.
Todd: So I had the distinction of. Still living in the city, really being a city kid. And some people are like, you know, whenever I got to college, they’re like, you don’t live in the city, city. And actually I do. It’s just there’s some really kind of nicer parts of the city, which I lived in. Um, we were in the same conference as some other, uh, football teams and they were in not that good of neighborhoods.
Todd: So, yeah, I think [00:34:00] we were kind of the cake eaters. That’s what they called us, the cake eaters. Okay. But see, this is the language I’m looking for. And then, but then we got to high school and we, there were some kids from Rogers Park who really, um, were a little bit, you know, from a real estate,
Cathy: socioeconomic different, yeah, they’re in a different
Todd: place.
Todd: And then we were in the middle, and then there’s some really super rich kids from the suburbs Got it. On the North Shore. So all of a sudden we went from the cake eaters to being like, you know, the kids who weren’t as abundant from a money standpoint as some of our classmates. So we were all over the place.
Cathy: Yeah, I, where I grew up, uh, I grew up in DeKalb and there was a north side and a south side. I wouldn’t say it was like this huge contentious thing, you know, it’s not like it’s the outsiders, but the north side was definitely more wealthy and the south side was definitely more, um, blue collar work. Both my parents were teachers, so you know, I grew up over there, but we also had, uh, northern Illinois University in DeKalb.
Cathy: So a lot of the professors’ kids lived on the south or on the north side. My mom actually taught at a [00:35:00] school on the north side, so she had taught at a middle school over there. And I went to the south side middle school and my mom actually asked me if I wanted to go to the north side and go to middle school there because she was teaching there.
Cathy: She knew all the teachers. She felt like, you know, that would be a good place for me to be. And I was like, absolutely not.
Todd: So you’re staying with your peace.
Cathy: I am staying with my friends and I am a south cider. Like there was a lot of. Um, that was my identity. Yeah. Like, I wanted to be with my people that I had grown up with.
Cathy: And, and again, it was, it, it it, there was definitely more wealthy people on the north side, like that was very obvious in the, in the neighborhoods, but it wasn’t like, so everything’s not so black and white. Right. I mean, there was plenty of people who did just fine on the south side. It just happened to be where they lived, you know?
Cathy: Sure. Um, but there was definitely, I mean, I think any town you’re from, even us being in Elmhurst right now, there are, you know, certain parts of town like that. I [00:36:00] remember when we moved here, I’m not even gonna say what people said, but they were like moved to this area, you know, move by this, you know, move closer to downtown.
Cathy: That there are certain parts of any town that is more, more desirable, bigger homes. Sure. More wealthy. Um, you know, there are definitely, definitely opinions about what people perceive to be the best. Mm-hmm. And some people wanna stay in that. So, you know, it’s interesting because. So one of the things that comes up, I’m kind of switching gears into vulnerability because one thing that you and I really noticed while watching this movie was how loving the greasers were toward each other.
Cathy: There was so much hugging.
Todd: Yeah.
Cathy: And so much like closeness.
Todd: Well, there’s a spot where soda pop is like, you know, ’cause it’s not like everybody has their own bedrooms. They share a bed.
Cathy: Yeah. Soda pop and pony share a bed. They’re brothers, by
Todd: the way. They’re brothers. And soda is like, he kind of. Ponies looking the other way, and soda just kind of does what I do with you and I just kind of [00:37:00] put my arm around you and it’s very sweet.
Todd: And that, and that happens throughout the movie. Yeah. Uh, more for the Johnny and Pony, more for the greasers. And you don’t see that aspect of the SOAs, but um, very, a lot of physical touch, a lot of close intimacy amongst these friends. It’s really kind of sweet and not one, it’s, I do not remember that.
Cathy: I don’t either.
Cathy: And I think we kept looking at each other like, wow, this is really intimate. Yeah. Like these boys have each other. There’s so much hugging. Yeah. There’s so much, you know, closeness and sometimes even when they’re just messing with each other, you know, they’re just wrestling or whatever, but there’s no, there’s no lack of love.
Cathy: Right. And to, you know, to the point of the description of greasers and the outsiders is they are family.
Sure.
Cathy: You know, and they are, they, you know, that’s how they connect with each other is on the fact that they have less. Well,
Todd: and I know we’re probably getting to the parenting aspect of it, but do any of the greasers.
Todd: Have a parent that we see on screen,
Cathy: not on screen. Yes. We see Johnny’s mom in the hospital. She wants to see him. Oh, that’s right. Yeah.
Yeah.
Cathy: And he doesn’t wanna see her. Yeah. And obviously we hear them [00:38:00] fighting. We know that Pony and soda and D’S parents died. The car accident, their car was hit by a train.
Cathy: Yeah. Um, dally, he, he’s mentions his parents ’cause Johnny’s upset that his parents haven’t asked about him. Yeah. And Dali’s like, dude,
Todd: yeah.
Cathy: My parents could care less where I am.
Todd: We don’t know about Steve or Tbit. Uhuh. We don’t know about them. Don’t know about them. All I know about two bit is one morning he’s at the house and he’s got a bottle of beer and a big chocolate cake.
Todd: A full chocolate cake. And he is just watching cartoons. But
Cathy: right before that, Steve is having some of the cake and he’s disgusting. Yeah. He’s like eating it with his hands and it’s like all over his face. Yeah. So another big part of this movie is the cycles of, you know, conflict and violence. You know, this, the whole idea of Pony Boy being a more sensitive and introspective kid.
Cathy: And Johnny as well, I, I put him in that category, is the uselessness. Of this violence. Mm-hmm. Like one of the most, you know, important parts of the movie is Randy, who’s a, so his best friend was Bob who was murdered.
Yeah.
Cathy: And Randy comes to talk to [00:39:00] Pony Boy, you know, toward the end of the movie. And basically is like, this is, we’re gonna have this big fight.
Cathy: Yeah. And we’re gonna beat each other up. And it’s absolutely useless. And he’s like, and I can’t tell my friends that. Yeah. ’cause then they’ll call me out and, you know, say I, he does. He’s not at the rumble. Randy? He doesn’t show up. No. Oh my gosh. I didn’t even put that together. Yeah. Does he say, I am not
Todd: gonna say, I don’t think so.
Todd: I just noticed that. Do we know for sure he didn’t show up? Not positive, but I was looking for him and I didn’t see him.
Cathy: Yeah. Well the whole thing is about, we actually just did a couple weeks ago, two, three weeks ago, did a podcast about empathy. Mm-hmm. The whole thing was about the importance of empathy.
Cathy: And this is what this movie is about, is that Pony Boy begins to see sos as individuals, they’re not enemies. Um, that we’re reminded of our own capacity to grow in our empathy for each other and understanding, because, you know, cherry has this whole speech where she’s like, oh, you think we have it all?
Cathy: You know, south Side sos you know that we are they South side [00:40:00] sos? Yeah. Okay. That we have it all, but we don’t pony, you know, we have hard times too, and you’re kind of like eye roll. But she’s right. Like their lives are not so great. Just like when we watch the Breakfast Club, you know, we think Andy’s so lucky ’cause he’s a great wrestler and everybody loves him, but the truth is his dad’s hard on him.
Cathy: Or you know, we see Molly Ringwald character and the truth is her parents don’t teach her how to stand up for herself and her own values. So it’s like. Everybody’s got something that’s a struggle. It’s just this socioeconomic line where we view people as either being worthy or not.
Todd: I got a little clip from uh, cherry and Pony boy at the drive-in where they’re talking a little bit about it.
Not all of us are like that. Sure. That’s like saying all your greasers are right down against, come on. You know what you’re gonna do about it. Let’s take it outside. That’s alright. You two. Why don’t you both take it outside. Come on outside. Jumped [00:41:00] a few people anyway. You think the SOS haven’t made the rich kids the south side so well.
I’ll tell you something, pony boy, and it might come as a surprise, but things are rough all over.
Todd: Everybody’s got it rough. Just some people got a little more rough than other people.
Cathy: Exactly. And it depends on what you value. Mm-hmm. What it, there is this belief, uh, from people who have less, and this totally makes sense, like this is not a crazy thought, is that if I had money, everything would be easy.
Cathy: And it always takes the experience of having access to wealth where you realize that wherever you go, there you are. Yeah. That you really don’t feel any different internally, you may be able to pay your bills and take some stress off the table, make sure you feed everybody like it. There’s a reality to having enough money to take care of your family.
Cathy: But there is this point, and I we’ve brought up this stat a million times. I think about there’s only, like, your happiness only goes up so much mm-hmm. Based on [00:42:00] money. And it only goes up like if you make enough money where you are middle class or you know, does that even exist anymore? But you know, where you actually can pay the bills and, you know, take care of your family.
Cathy: And then after that the increases in the amount of money you have actually don’t increase your happiness. Right. There is a threshold. So we have a false belief and it definitely cycles in this community. Um, it’s very obvious and the, the most important thing as far as rolling in the deep is the fact that Pony Boy and.
Cathy: And Johnny and a little bit of everybody else dairy, you know, soda for sure is that they do have sensitivity. They do want connection. They do feel, uh, depth and a creativity and like, and they, and they definitely recognize that in Pony, you know, like who is really smart and can recite poems and like, can write well.
Cathy: Um, he has introspection and he,
Todd: so, so if I were gonna ask [00:43:00] you who, uh, who evolves the most, who evolves in this movie or who transforms for better and who doesn’t transform at all, what would you say?
Cathy: Well, Steve doesn’t. Doesn’t have enough character development. I would say a, a few, I’d say dairy evolves a lot.
Cathy: Yeah. I think dairy, at the beginning of the movie, you’re made to believe that he’s awful to pony and that what you kind of learn about him, there’s a quick, uh, clip that two bit says, you know, dairy would be a soh if it wasn’t for us. Mm-hmm. Because he was an excellent athlete and he was well respected by the, by the guys who were on the football team.
Cathy: And
Todd: he would’ve money if he wasn’t taking care of his two little brothers.
Cathy: Correct. He would, he would’ve broken out and, but he had to take care of his brothers, as Todd said, as we were watching this as a little party of five action. Yeah. If you ever watch Party of Five, you know, like he had to stay and he was not able to evolve.
Cathy: I think that, um, interestingly, dally goes. He like, he devolves. He devolves. [00:44:00] And, you know, we kind of wanted to save this part for the show. I don’t think they allowed us to see enough of Dallas and Johnny’s relationship.
Todd: Yeah. Right. ’cause
Cathy: Dali is devastated
Todd: and very protective over Johnny the whole time.
Todd: Even though he does get mad at Johnny at the drive-in, because does, Johnny stands up to him
Cathy: and maybe he respects that.
Todd: Yeah.
Cathy: Like Johnny speaking up to Dallas. Yeah. Like, you know, leave Cherry alone.
Yeah.
Cathy: But Dally like, when Johnny dies, dally loses it. Yeah. And, and he’s already been in prison. This guy, like, he’s gone through it.
Cathy: Like, so what is the Johnny, I felt like they needed one more scene to like, show us their connection. Mm-hmm. Because I, he, I mean, he like gets a gun. He robs a, yeah. Yeah.
What’d you say? Come on, you heard me leave alone.
What’d you say? Little shit. What’d you say to me? Come on. Why is this? [00:45:00]
Todd: Oh, dally. That’s Dally. Um, ready
Cathy: for parenting? Or you still got more?
Todd: No, no. Let’s, let’s go over here.
Cathy: We like you
and the Jackson
when you coming home. So
Todd: this is the parental guidance aspect of the show. Not a lot of parental guidance going on. Um, dairy is kind of a pseudo parenting figure to soda pop and pony and the rest of the greasers, right? For sure.
Cathy: He’s like their leader.
Todd: He’s kind of the father figure, uh, works hard. He’s a roofer.
Todd: Um, but Johnny’s parents are awful. We never see Dally or Steve’s or Tuits parents. Um,
Cathy: but I like your point that dairy and Dally are the parents.
Todd: Well, I think Dali’s just a. Uh, he’s just a pain in the ass.
Cathy: Well, he’s, but
Todd: he’s somebody that you want, if you ever get into a rumble
Cathy: who do pony and Johnny go [00:46:00] find when they get in trouble.
Todd: Right. That’s true. He’s a parent figure. Yeah, that’s true. ’cause he tells ’em to go to the church and Correct. Has a plan. Go to the, uh, go get all the baloney sandwiches that you can buy and don’t stick your head out and all that. So yeah, he’s a man with the plan at that time.
Cathy: He’s, he is, and dairy is like the, you know, the, the good, and I’m putting this in air quotes, the good parent who’s like, I’m gonna have a job and make sure I make you breakfast.
Cathy: And Dally is the, the one who’s like, I’m gonna keep you safe. Yeah. And in, you know, we can debate if they’re really, if he’s really keeping them safe. But Dally, there’s a great scene where, um, when he finally goes to the church to get them and they find out through a letter that Soda pop wrote. Mm-hmm. Do you remember the letter?
Cathy: Uh, what
Todd: did it say?
Cathy: The letter. So soda pop or. Dally gives this letter to Pony Boy that soda pop wrote him, and he’s like, you know, soda’s like, you know, I want you to turn yourself in. Are you okay? I’m so worried about you love Soda Pop, Curtis. Mm-hmm. Like he says his last name. Yeah. That’d be like you writing a [00:47:00] letter to your brother and saying, Todd, Adam.
Yeah. Yeah. Um,
Cathy: but anyway, dally is d we find out from the letter also that Dali had been pulled in to the police station and that he had been questioned and he took that and he took that heat
Todd: and he just got outta jail at the beginning of the movie. So he’s, he’s had some fractures with the law
Cathy: and the fact that he was willing to take that heat for them.
Cathy: Yeah. Yeah. You know, he’s like, ah. They just questioned me and he goes, I told him you guys were on your way to Texas.
Yeah.
Cathy: So, but let’s take a different approach as far as parenting goes. Like, you know, who, I feel like these movies are opportunities for conversation with our kids, right? This is like a, a great movie that discusses everything that, you know, can go wrong in childhood, right?
Cathy: The difference in socioeconomic, different sides of town, not, you know, cycles of violence, not understanding each other, lack of communication. Um, believing, you know. Things about people that, that you haven’t even met yet. Like, it really brings up a lot [00:48:00] of good conversation. And I think we kind of already did this in rolling in the deep, but like, who were you as a kid and who did you feel like?
Cathy: And to ask you who did I identify with? You don’t have to answer that. Okay. ’cause I think you can if you want. But this is a conversation we can have with our kids. When you watch this movie, who do you think you are?
Todd: Yeah.
Cathy: Who do you feel like?
Todd: Um, I think that I just probably fall in line like most kids, like some kids probably see themselves as Dallas ’cause he’s cool and he is tough.
Todd: Sure. But, uh, I saw myself as the more introspective pony boy.
Cathy: Yeah. And, and I think that’s who you know. And again, I’m gonna talk about gender for a second. You know, this movie only has one girl. Mm-hmm. Um, or don’t forget about Marsha’s Sweets. Marsha’s her friend who I noticed. Don’t forget about Johnny’s mom.
Cathy: Johnny’s mom. And Sy Hinton is one of the nurses. Yes, she is. He plays a nurse. But, so I, I, I was identifying more like. Through their experience as all girls and women had to do before, girl, girls, and women were leads of movies. Um, which has [00:49:00] only come, you know, come in the last decade or so. But we didn’t have, like, I, I felt connected to Pony Boy.
Cathy: There’s nobody in
Todd: this movie for you as a female. No.
Cathy: I mean Cherry, I guess, but you’re, whatever. She’s an afterthought, first of all. And let’s talk about Cherry for a second. Something that was so confusing to me is Cherry says to Pony Boy if I don’t talk to you at school.
Yeah.
Cathy: Don’t be bummed about that.
Cathy: Yeah. Okay. But then Cherry breakfast is their snitch.
Todd: Yeah. Right? Yeah. She’ll go behind their backs to help them, but she doesn’t wanna let her image get impacted.
Cathy: But she also spoke up in, now this was a deleted scene, but she, the deleted scene we watch is they actually show the court case. Mm-hmm. Where Pony Boy is on trial.
Cathy: That’s
Todd: right. Well, that’s once Johnny dies, you know, she’s gonna start doing some different things throughout the timeline of the movie.
Cathy: But that’s the thing, Todd, it doesn’t, it doesn’t work out in the way they did it because Cherry takes the stand and says, yes, Bob was drunk.
Todd: Oh. You know?
Cathy: And then the next scene is when they’re at school.
Cathy: Oh, interesting. And she doesn’t talk to porn. Oh, I thought
Todd: the was opposite. Yeah. So it’s a little, uh, breakfast [00:50:00] clubby. It’s a little pretty And Pinky.
Cathy: Yeah. Like I can’t talk to you. Yeah. ’cause you’re, you know, you’re from a different group or whatever. Right. Which I kind of. That I always questioned. My high school was smaller, so maybe it was different, but we didn’t really do that.
Cathy: Like, I’m not saying that there weren’t groups or cliques, but it’s not like I can’t be seen with this person. Yeah. Right up with these people. Yeah. It’s, I
Todd: think Hollywood, it turns up the volume on the, on the actuality of how it usually sits.
Cathy: Exactly. Yeah. So one other parenting question, or maybe two others, empathy.
Cathy: This movie is about empathy. So how do you feel Todd Adams parent, father of three daughters, that you have taught empathy? Like how do you think you’ve demonstrated empathy to your kids?
Hmm.
Cathy: I mean, it, it could be as you’re thinking, it could be in the ways that we offer them books and say, I want you to read about this character.
Cathy: It could be in our own experience and how we show up. It could be what we point to when we’re [00:51:00] talking about what we value.
Todd: Yeah. I mean, and first thing that comes to me is do I model it? Yeah. Can I, can I see it from their point of view? And there’s times when I can’t at all, and there’s other times when I can.
Todd: So, um, I always, you know, default to, am I modeling empathy with you, with my friends, with my daughters, because they’re more a, my kids aren’t gonna be more likely to be empathic if they can see me do it. But that’s as much as I got.
Cathy: Yeah. I, I, well, I agree with all that. And you know, sometimes when the girls were little, we were really.
Cathy: Um, literal about it. Like, um, if we would find a spider in the house, uh, this was kind of natural to me anyway. It wasn’t like I was pr, you know, pretending. Yeah. But we would have the girls help us get that spider in a cup and get him outta the house. Yeah. Or a stink bug. Like we were trying to be like, let’s treat nature with some respect.
Cathy: Um, you know, like let’s, you know, if ever the girls and I are together and we drive by a, an animal on the side of the road that has been killed, [00:52:00] we, we do like, kiss our fingers and like, you know, kind of send it good love and you know, like to not to see living things as living things. Yeah. Um, to take care of, you know, to be kind to animals outside, to feed the birds.
Cathy: Um, you know, you can teach empathy through obviously how we are with human beings. That’s the most important. But you can demonstrate it in other ways too.
Todd: Are we ready for the, what did it teach us? Let’s
Cathy: go baby.
Todd: A few things that I think that this movie teaches us.
Cathy: Yes.
Todd: Um, outsiders we’re a lot more alike than we are. Different. Absolutely. Um, leadership doesn’t have to be loud. And who are you referring to there? Johnny’s a quiet leader.
Cathy: Okay. See, he’s like, kind of the heart of this movie isn’t, he’s the heart
Todd: of it.
Cathy: Even I, I debate between he and Pony, like who’s [00:53:00] more of the heart?
Todd: Well, Johnny Defends pony, you know, for all we know, pony could have died drowning in that fountain. Mm. And if it wasn’t for Johnny, pony Boy may have been dead. Johnny also goes back and helps the kids after. I think they’re kind of come like, he just doesn’t get outta the church.
Todd: So he, yeah, he
Cathy: realizes
Todd: there’s more to do, but he, and he says, uh, at the end it was worth it. You know, those kids are younger than me. I’ve had more, many more trips around this planet. Uh, more years where the earth has gone around the sun than these, you know, seven, 8-year-old kids. So
Cathy: doesn’t that
Todd: make you wanna cry?
Cathy: Yeah. He sacrificed himself because he’s 16, but he also says before that. Mm-hmm. I, I’ve, he’s like, there’s so many times I’ve thought about dying and he’s wanted to Yeah. ’cause he’s had such a rough life and he goes, now that I’m in this shape, I don’t wanna die. Yeah. There’s so many things I haven’t done, but he’s left in that room to think for hours and, um.
Cathy: Anyway, it ends up, he’s like, you know what? I wouldn’t take it back.
Todd: Yeah. And Johnny also says, I [00:54:00] think there’s a quote in there that says, there’s a lot of good in this world. Tell Dali and Johnny and Dali’s dead. Dali’s dead. And Johnny didn’t see a lot of good, he got his ass kicked by the sos. His parents had no interest in him.
Todd: Uh, he’s in a hospital, and yet he’s saying, there’s a lot of good in this world.
Cathy: Well, here’s the, the deep thing about, you know, our experiences in life. And you and I were just talking about this in the car. We were, you know, talking about being concerned about something that our daughter was going through.
Cathy: And I was like, you know, it’s all perspective. Mm-hmm. Because our children can be going through something, or we can be going through something and, and we can, and that can be a real thing. And we have to make sure that we, you know, empathize and support and, and, you know, give credit to or deal with that issue.
Cathy: But we also have to look around and recognize what’s working. Yeah. You know, we have to keep focusing on Yeah. But you know, we have these connections. We have this house with a roof, we have food, we have, you know, laughter, we have, you know, friends, there’s, [00:55:00] you don’t wanna lose sight of what’s working while you are dealing with what’s not.
Cathy: Yeah. And I think that, um, that is something that Johnny was able to do in a much more sincere way, where he had less to notice, but he did notice. Yeah.
Todd: Uh, are we ready for cringe or classic?
Cathy: Um, let me see if there’s anything else. What else
Todd: you got for teaching?
Cathy: Um, that’s good.
Todd: All right.
Nobody puts paper in a corner.
Todd: All right. This is the part of the show where we say whether or not something was cringey or a classic.
Cathy: And that was, uh, dairy being Johnny Castle from Dirty Dancing. That’s right. Which is a cringey quote, but it’s quite classic as well.
Todd: Um, so the first thing is, is this cringe or classic sweetie?
Cathy: Um,
Todd: I’m gonna go, I’m gonna vote [00:56:00] cringe.
Cathy: Okay. I’m gonna vote. Can we have, can we have a middle? Can we have cringe? No, it’s not, hold on.
Todd: Go ahead.
Cathy: We can have cringe. Yeah. Classic. Yeah. Or cringey. Classic.
Todd: No, that’s totally opposite of the whole, you have to decide whether or not it’s cringe or classic. Oh, you can’t decide.
Todd: It’s both.
Cathy: It’s hard. It’s cringey. Classic.
Todd: Um, I’m gonna go cringe. I will say one thing that is classic for me, as people know, I do a lot of work with men’s organizations and men living and all that. Um, that, that there’s a lot of physical touch with these men Yeah. As we discussed. That’s for me, that’s classic.
Todd: Yeah. Um, I, I have one more cringe or classic and it’s the entire movie. Is it cringe or It’s classic.
Cathy: Okay. What if we break down that some of the lines in the movie, like, we’re going to do it for Johnny. Yeah. It’s a little cringey. Yeah. Um, and you know, STAYGOLD Pony Boy, it’s a beautiful, but it’s, you know, you can cringe.
Cathy: [00:57:00] Um, but some of it’s so beautiful. Like the letter that Johnny wrote to Pony Boy. Mm-hmm. I don’t know how he wrote it.
Todd: Yeah.
Cathy: Because he was in traction.
Todd: Yeah. Uh, maybe what you mean. Yeah. Well maybe he had somebody write it down while he was, was talking. Write it for him. Sure.
Cathy: Okay. But he writes a really beautiful letter that I don’t find to be cringey at all.
Cathy: No. Um, I think that there, it’s there. The funniest, the part that you and I laughed at so hard is there’s this part where when there’re hiding in the church and, uh, Dali comes to see them and takes them out to eat, and then they’re sitting in the car and this kid comes over and says, Hey Mr. You got, you got 15 cents, you got a dime.
Yeah.
Cathy: And dali’s like, no, get outta here kid. And then he is like, Ooh, that was a close one. We’re like, what was the close one? There was no close call. It was children. And by the way, I think we figured out that was Sophia Coppola. Yes. Was the kid. Yeah. Or maybe not Sophia, but some, a Coppola.
Todd: She was in there.
Todd: I dunno who looked, she was, looked like somebody
Cathy: that we knew. But anyway, um, so [00:58:00] that was kind of cringey, but it’s. Todd, I’m going with classic,
Todd: uh, the entire movie. No, but
Cathy: you’re not letting me say Cringey Classic. So I gotta choose one or the
Todd: other. But what’s a classic? Which? The movie. The movie. Okay. I didn’t, I didn’t know if you were talking about the entire movie or not.
Todd: I’m gonna go cringe. Okay. I was here and here’s my, my biggest thing is I remember liking this movie a lot, right? When I was a young kid. Yeah. And we just watched it on Friday night and I’m like, this movie’s not that good. Well, so one of two things has happened. Okay. In my old age, I become jaded and just see the flaws in things.
Todd: Okay. Or this, or I was just. Naive in thinking this movie was actually good when I was 11 years old.
Cathy: Well, I think it’s in between, I think it’s gray. Like all things in the world. It was 1983. Mm-hmm. It’s the best they could do. Yeah. With the filming and the all the thing that was the way things were. And I think that these kids were close to our age.
Cathy: I mean, they [00:59:00] were like 10 years older than us. Um, but they were fairly close to our age and we knew the book and it was exciting. And it was a time, do you know what I mean? Like it was so we’re never going to be able to recapture that experience,
Todd: sweetie. Is this cringe your classic, been
a wise zone and you get tough like me and you don’t get hurt.
Todd: Cringe of classic tough like me, you don’t get hurt.
Cathy: Uh, that is cringe.
Todd: One thing we did realize that, uh, Coppola put in new, a new score. Over the top of the movie. Great. Which was brutal. And he did not do a good job. It was totally distracting.
Cathy: So what Todd means by that is that the original movie had a certain score and then with this redone movie with the deleted scenes, they put songs in and it did not fit the tone.
Cathy: Like we were like, wait, this song does not fit the tone of what’s happening.
Todd: Um, this is from a deleted scene. Um, and I think it’s Johnny’s mom. ’cause I don’t think this was in the original. They’re in the hospital and Johnny wants to see his [01:00:00] mom and I No, he doesn’t wanna see his mom. He doesn’t wanna see it.
Todd: His mom wants see him. Correct. And he doesn’t wanna see her
scum. No wonder hates her goods. You don’t even care about ’em. You’re damn drunk. You go straight to hell, you go right to hell.
Todd: Yeah. That was kind of an important scene. Why did they cut that out? ’cause I don’t think that was in the original.
Cathy: Well, they had to get it down to, you know, whatever length you said.
Todd: And then this is the
Cathy: Gold Pony book.
Todd: Cr, your classic sweetie.
Cathy: I mean,
Todd: it’s a little cr.
Cathy: That part was cringey. There was two scenes when Ralph Macchio has to pass out. Yeah. When Johnny and Pony boy are visiting him. And the pass out scene is pretty funny. ’cause he actually sticks his tongue out like he’s Woo.
Cathy: Yeah. And they understand that
Todd: he passed out in that moment. And
Cathy: then in the next, it looked like he died
Todd: in that first moment. I know. And then the second time he dies and. They know he died. Like how did it looked like the both times he died
Cathy: and he [01:01:00] died right when they got there. Yeah. He’s like, I’ve been waiting for you guys to die.
Cathy: Yeah. Um, so yeah, there, there’s cringey moments, but I would like to be in the middle, but you’re making me choose. And the only reason I’m gonna say classic is because, you know, Todd and I chose this movie as their second Zen pop parenting because it was so influential Yeah. On our culture. Yeah. It was so influential on Gen Xers.
Cathy: And the book has maintained, you know, your kids know what the outsiders is. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like this is a conversation that you can keep having, like this connects us. Um, so we ready for quotes?
Todd: Yeah. Let’s, uh, may the force be with you? May the force be with you. May the force be with you. May the fools be with, may the force be with you.
Todd: What do you got for best quotes, sweetie?
Cathy: Well, I am gonna shake it up a little bit and say that there are two different quotes here and one is from the movie and one is from the book.
Todd: Okay.
Cathy: So the one in the book is maybe the two different worlds we lived in weren’t so different. We saw the same sunset.
Cathy: Mm-hmm. With this pony boy, that’s pretty cool. Now in, there’s another one by Cherry that says it’s [01:02:00] okay, we aren’t in the same class. Just don’t forget that some of us watch the same sunset too. Yeah. So they’re trying to give us the sunset theme, but one’s in the book, one’s in the, um, you know, in the movie, but they’re just trying to point out that we’re all looking at the same sky.
Todd: Yeah. Um, I think my best quote is, uh, do it for Johnny.
Cathy: What about, Hey Mr. You got a dime?
Todd: No, no, that’s, that’s up there. But it’s not taking the cake.
Cathy: We gotta get even with those sos
Todd: That’s right. Um,
Cathy: for Johnny, man,
Todd: are we gonna do, where are they now? Sure. Let’s do it.
Where are you?
Todd: And I want you to grade, uh, this is what we’re gonna do. You’re gonna give a letter grade on post outside’s career. Okay? I’m just gonna go down these people.
Cathy: So you’re gonna say the people, I’m gonna tell you their age and their astrological sign.
Todd: C Thomas Howell. What letter grade do you give ’em?
Cathy: Uh, now?
Todd: Yeah. Uh, just a, just an overall. I’m giving him a D minus. [01:03:00] Oh boy. He, what? What else did he do other than the outsiders? That was good.
Cathy: Uh, not a lot.
Todd: D minus.
Cathy: Okay. I, I’ll agree with you. He’s now 58 years old. He’s a Sagittarius.
Todd: Oh, that’s interesting. Uh, Patrick Swayze, rest in peace.
Cathy: Yes. He died when he was 57.
Cathy: He is a Leo like me, so he and Patrick and I are together. I’ll give
Todd: him a B plus.
Cathy: I’ll give Patrick Swayze an A minus.
Todd: Okay. I
Cathy: mean, let’s talk about dirty dancing. Ghost point break.
Todd: Yeah.
Cathy: Like we, we love, we love a good, it’s the classics.
Todd: Yeah. Uh, Tom Cruise. Well, a, i, I mean, I’m actually not gonna give him an A or an A plus.
Todd: I’ll give him an A minus. I’m
Cathy: gonna give him an A Because you’re saying talk about his career. Right. And, and his career has been stunning and stellar.
Todd: Stunning. But his last five or six movies, if you take Top Gun Maverick out of it. Like, I don’t think I’ve seen a single movie he’s done since Jerry McGuire, aside from Top Gun Maverick.
Cathy: Yeah. So Todd and I are not Mission Impossible people and but for people who are,
Todd: yeah,
Cathy: [01:04:00] they love them. Right. And so they’re, and he just does these incredible stunts and he is 62 years old and he’s a cancer, uh, Rob Lowe, uh, I love Rob Lowe’s career. I, I think his career is my favorite career. Really? Yes.
Cathy: Because it’s been all over the place. Yeah. Rob Lowe had his big, you know, the outsiders about last night. Um, black Dana, almost st almost fired. Like all the brat pack stuff that he got messed in, you know, messed up in. And then, um, he got into this big, um, ordeal where he was caught with a girl who was underage.
Cathy: He. Claims he didn’t know she was underage and there was a videotape and it was a big deal. And his career kind of went down the tubes. I don’t know if you younger people know this. And then he came back in more of a comedian type role, like where he was in Wayne’s World and he was in Tommy Boy. And he, he like tried to do some serious things too.
Cathy: Um, I think he came back as a villain in one movie. Do you remember that movie? I don’t. Um, but he [01:05:00] kind of like rebooted and then, well he did West Wing. He did West Wing. He did Parks and Rec. Yeah. I mean, I just have seen, I mean, he held onto his career in such an interesting and different way. I’m gonna
Todd: give him a b plus.
Cathy: I’m gonna give him an A. And he’s 61 and he’s a Pisces, uh, Ralph Macho. I love Ralph
Todd: Macchio. What are you gonna give him an a. I like all these guys. You are such an easy grader.
Cathy: I am. Ask my college students. Oh yeah.
Todd: They tell me I’m giving Ralph Macchio a C plus.
Cathy: Okay. How can you do that when we’ve loved Cobra Kai.
Todd: I know, sweetie. But it’s been 45 years since this movie and, uh, like, I’m trying to think of things that I love that Ralph Macchio has done since this movie. And I think my cousin Vinny awesome. Karate kid. Right? Forget about all the sequels. They’re all bad. Okay. Cobra Kai was amazing. All right. Uh, he did a, he was a jazz musician, a guitar [01:06:00] player one time called Crossroads, I think.
Todd: Oh, never saw it. Never saw it wasn’t any good. Well, what about how he looks so
Cathy: young and he’s so cute.
Todd: Yeah, but I’m just talking about what did he do over his career?
Cathy: Okay. You win. I’ll give him a b.
Todd: Okay. And then last but not least, I think, oh, maybe we’ll do a Wait.
Cathy: Ralph Macho is 63 and he’s a Scorpio.
Cathy: Actually, I think he might be 65 now. Oh, geez. I’m sorry. This might be out. No, it says this is May, 2025.
Todd: Okay. All right. Uh, yeah. And he looks like a baby. Yeah, he’s aging very well. Emilio Esteve. Uh, I’m gonna give him an a Oh my gosh,
Cathy: a minus.
Todd: No, he’s been a director. What has he directed that you’ve seen?
Todd: That’s good.
Cathy: That movie with his dad with, with Martin Sheen? I don’t know. Yeah. But he directed, he directed the movie with his brother, with Charlie Sheen. Remember,
Todd: you don’t even know the name of it. Met what was it Been at work? Been at work. Um, he
Cathy: directed that movie Wisdom with Demi Moore.
Todd: Yeah. Just not a lot going on.
Todd: Okay. He, he did Breakfast Club, he did St. [01:07:00] Elmo’s, but he didn’t do much.
Cathy: He was in Andrew McCarthy’s Brat Pack documentary. Yes.
Todd: Um, Diane Lane,
Cathy: wait, he’s 62? He’s turning 63 this month. Yeah. And he’s a Taurus, like you
Todd: there. That’s my guy. Um, Diane Lane. You’re gonna give her an A plus. A plus for sure. Duh. Todd loves Diane Lane.
Todd: I’m a big fan of Diane Lane, especially in that movie with Richard Gere. What’s that movie? Unfaithful? Ugh. Forget about it. There’s a lot of
Cathy: sex scenes in that movie. Forget about it. Um, she has been in a lot, but a lot of things she did didn’t work very well. Yeah. Like Steve could have had a bigger career.
Cathy: Um, I think that it just sucked. She was in
Todd: Six Pack with Kenny Rogers.
Cathy: She was in Under the Tuscan Sun, which I think is a, a fan favorite. Yeah. She was in the Cotton Club with Richard Gere. She was in another movie with Richard Gere where they were on a beach. They like, there was, I don’t remember what it was called.
Cathy: Um, some people listening might remember. Um, and then what’s another Diane Lane move? Oh sweetie, we [01:08:00] forgot a perfect storm. Ugh, her Boston accent.
Todd: Yeah. She doesn’t do that Good. A job with the Boston accent.
Cathy: Well, Diane Lane is 60 years old. She’s an Aquarius.
Todd: Yeah. Um, all right. Are we ready? She
Cathy: about Leaf Garrett.
Todd: Uh. I just hope the best for him. Let’s just say that he’s had some, let’s send him good vibes. He’s had some drug issues. Yeah. Uh, so that was the we, that was the Where are they now? Now we’re gonna do music game. All right.
That song makes me go.
Todd: All right. So this is the part of the show where we name a song that encapsulates the energy, the feeling of this movie.
Cathy: And remember, you don’t wanna do a really simple, easy song. Like, we wouldn’t pick Stevie Wonders. Stay Gold. Yeah. ’cause that’s the song from the movie that’s too literal and basic. You wanna like grab the vibe and the energy and do something creative and then you’ve got to like, fight for your song.
Todd: Yep. Uh, you wanna go first or you want me to? You [01:09:00] go first.
Uh.
Todd: Um, I don’t think I really need to explain why, but obviously Johnny and Pony are running away from the law. It’s gritty. It’s gritty. It just kind of has it like kind of a black and white, um, you know, movie feel to it. You’re so right. Uh, I think it was probably written in the early seventies, so it’s kind of old like the movie is, uh, and it’s the boss.
Todd: So that’s what I got.
Cathy: Okay. So I kind of went a different way. Yeah. And I’m gonna have to fight for it a little bit. So I want you to put in Don Henley Boys of Summer. Oh, okay. I love that song. Mm-hmm. This came out in 1984. Mm-hmm. So it definitely captures the feeling of the times.
Todd: All right, so go ahead and defend.
Cathy: So the song, the [01:10:00] story in the song is very, it’s not, it doesn’t match up perfectly. It’s definitely not that gritty. It’s more of a pop song. Mm-hmm. But it captures that time period for me. Yes. Like that when that song was popular, it’s like how things felt. And it really was about, um, these, you know, the story in the song is really about a guy on his own and then feeling a little more cast out and remembering a time.
Cathy: And so it’s, it yours kind of fits the movie almost like you could put Born to Run in that movie. Yeah. Mine is more like the vibe of how I feel, feel about the outsiders. Like Boys of Summer was what I was listening to at the time, and it kind of captured all those guys. And remember they were all on my walls.
Cathy: Yeah. They were all over my walls. I always wonder what my parents thought about all these boys on my walls. So it’s
Todd: a teenage thing. I had pictures of girls up on my walls. It’s what we do.
Cathy: It is, it’s so normal and healthy and natural. It’s less about them being mad, but I wonder if they were ever like.
Cathy: Okay. Mm-hmm. Because like they were everywhere. Mm-hmm. I mean, and it [01:11:00] wasn’t just from the outsiders. Yeah. It was like these guys kept doing movies. Um, are we ready for the last category? Yeah. Trivia baby.
Todd: All right. Uh, I don’t have much trivia. Okay. Um, but that’s all right. We’re an hour and 10 minutes in anyways. Um, and these are really easy, at least some of them are. Which character is a deep love for cars and works on them in the film?
Cathy: Two bit. Steve? No, no, no. Soda Pop.
Todd: Very good. He
Cathy: worked at the gas station.
Todd: Uh, I think he works with Steve, doesn’t he? Yeah. Character. I think Steve worked
Cathy: there too. Yeah.
Todd: Uh, what item does Johnny buy for? So don’t answer right away ’cause let’s the listener. Okay. Okay. Because we just saw what item does Johnny buy for Pony that signifies his care and the bond between them?
Cathy: I so sweet.
Todd: What does he do sweetie? Go ahead and say it. He buys him the book on with the wind and they read it together. The pastime?
Cathy: Yeah.
Todd: Uh, what actor played the role? Bob Sheldon. That was our buddy Leaf Garrett. That’s right. Um, [01:12:00] uh, I don’t like this question, but I’ll ask, okay. What happens to Johnny’s parents in this story?
Todd: Like, no idea. What’s their deal? They’re just totally ne neglectful. It’s not a very, is that
Cathy: a book question or a movie question? Because we don’t know from the movie idea.
Todd: I don’t know. Who knows? Okay. Uh, what year was the book The Outsiders first published?
Cathy: Oh, great question. It it 72? I don’t know.
Todd: I believe it says 1967.
Cathy: Oh, okay.
Todd: Yeah. So anyways, I don’t know what to play off for our, for this podcast.
Cathy: You need to play a Leaf Garrett song. Oh boy. Um, let me just say a few things about him as we’re leaving. Number one, he was a big star and Todd and I looked up all of his songs and he really didn’t have any of his own. He just sang other people’s songs.
Cathy: Um, if you ever get the chance to listen to the Armchair Expert, uh, podcast, uh, the original podcast with Justin Bateman or Jason Bateman, which was like from 10 years ago or whenever Armchair Expert started, Jason Bateman tells a great [01:13:00] story about his weekend with Leaf Garrett. ’cause Leaf Garrett was dating his sister Justine Bateman, and it’s a hilarious episode to Todd’s Point.
Cathy: Leaf. Garrett did not have it easy. He was No, no. He made a lot of its own
Todd: trouble.
Cathy: He did, and he ended up in a, he had a DUI and he hurt a friend who ended up paralyzed and he was in celebrity rehab and he just had one of those stories. So we’re gonna end with his song in Happier Days.
Todd: This is called, I Was Made For Dancing.
Cathy: He was. He was. Thanks for listening to The Outsiders, everybody.
Todd: If anybody has any suggestions on, uh, if you want us to do a movie or a TV show, just let us know, but, uh, we’ll see you next Tuesday. Keep track.
Round two. Change a little bit. And change a little bit. Pretty [01:14:00] pleasant.
