[00:00:00]

Go ahead, Jay. Make anything you think.

Todd: All right, sweetie. People are probably like, what are we listening to?

Cathy: We were listening to the very end of the movie. This is the end, is Seth Rogan and all of his buddies, and Todd and I were talking about, we, you know, we’ve been [00:01:00] preparing for this episode about boy bands and I always like to throw in all these cultural references to remind him of how truly popular they were, are have been.

Cathy: We pretend to not like them, but really we’ll

Todd: continue to be. Yes.

Cathy: People pretend they’re like, no, no, no, they’re bad, but they like. Jay gets a wish when he gets to heaven at the end of this is the end, and he wishes for the Backstreet Boys singing everybody. So I’m right there with you, Jay. Um, what’s the name

Todd: of this podcast?

Cathy: Well, this is a continuation of, uh, this performance that’s, uh, performative masculinity. Uh, last week we talked about hairbands. This week we’re talking about boy bands, so we’re gonna talk about it in terms of just how fun it is. And I have a deep love, um, that, uh, you know, most people know already about boy bands and it’s also about how it’s affected our culture, et cetera.

Cathy: But we tend to, last week and this week, we’re going more heavy on like the best [00:02:00] of lists and our favorite songs and. Just having more fun with it than anything. Um,

Todd: and before we jump in, um, three things we wanna promote and, you know, we didn’t say who we are.

Cathy: Todd. I’m Todd. And I’m Kathy. And this is Zen Pop Parenting where Gen X culture meets real life reflection.

Todd: Uh, where’s my clap?

Cathy: Here we are.

Todd: Um, you have a book that came out in December last year, Uhhuh Restoring Our Girls. Correct. Good time to be reading that book. Now that we’re kind of in back to school mode to school mode, you have a substack? Yes. Twice a week. Yep. Once free.

Cathy: One’s free is called Zen Parenting Moment.

Cathy: And you can also do a paid subscription for what’s called Ping.

Todd: And that’s on Wednesdays. Correct that on Wednesdays. And lastly, we have, uh, Team Zen correct slash Zen Parenting podcasts.

Cathy: Yeah, so Team Zen is our virtual community, but it’s also, these are the three things that are behind the paywall for Team Zen.

Cathy: We do a Zen Parenting radio episode that you can either just listen to and it’ll come to your podcast feed or you can join us live. That’s up to you. Uh, I have a women’s group [00:03:00] that I run over there that’s amazing. And we’ve been talking about sending kids to college and moving out and we’ve just been processing her grief together.

Cathy: And then, um, we also have, um, uh, a monthly q and a that Todd and I do. So they’re like live calls where we answer questions and we also, people can DM us. It’s pretty great. So that’s it.

Todd: And, uh, if you’re interested in any of those things, just scroll down and it’s in the show notes. So one of the first que, first of all, I had never thought that we’d have an F-bomb within 10 seconds of the beginning of our podcast.

Todd: Podcast. Dumb one. Um, should I, should I bleep out that F-bomb or should I keep it in? I, I don’t care. I don’t know. We’ll see. Maybe I’ll bleep out. I don’t think these are big concerns. So, uh, before we press record, you said, because I, we drove to Iowa City yesterday to drop our daughter off. Mm-hmm. And I listened to a documentary called Larger Than Life.

Todd: And I’ve just kind of been researching this topic because you’ve been research researching this topic since 1989 or whatever. They started

Cathy: organically.

Todd: I have, and [00:04:00] I started researching this topic yesterday, so I needed to kind of get up to speed. But one question you asked me was, after kind of watching some of these documentaries, has my perception of it changed, uh, your perception of boy band boy bands?

Todd: And here’s my answer. Okay. Um, yes, and I don’t know if it’s because I got more information, it’s more that I, I think I used to care a lot about what people thought of me. Me? Yes. Thank you. And um, you know, if you were to ask me in the early nineties, do I like boy bands, I’d be like, no. I like Nirvana and Pearl Jam and Smashing Pumpkins and all the bands I like, and as long the invitation to myself and maybe any other person out there that is anti boy bands is, if you can get.

Todd: Outside of the egoic, perceived uncool parts ’cause it’s, was it cooler to like Kurt Cobain or the new Kids on the Block? And the answer I think was Kurt Cobain

Cathy: and I think who I, who I have always been is why can’t you like both? Yeah. Like we did a whole show on grunge and I have a very [00:05:00] deep history of loving grunge as well.

Cathy: And I go to those concerts and why do I have to choose? And I think this whole idea that we wrap up our identity with a specific band or a specific person and say, this is the only thing I like. And anything else that you know is different than it is, it’s an identity issue rather than a, I enjoy this music issue.

Cathy: Now in between there, Todd, there are people who really, they’re like, I don’t like pop music. I only like the, you know. We’re all over the board. There’s no like, in no way do I look at people and say, no, you like boy bands. You’re just pretending you don’t. I don’t, that’s not it. Yeah. It’s just this belief that it’s the, I am not a fan of the whole coolness thing.

Cathy: Yeah. Of like, I’m cool because I only listen to this and I only watch these movies and I only, you know, wear these kind of clothes. I’m like, dude, just be yourself. Like, it’s like one life. Yeah. I mean, we have one life, if you like, listening to everybody by the Backstreet Boys. It doesn’t make you less of a person.

Cathy: And I, I really talk to, um, [00:06:00] like Teen Girls about this too, is they hide certain aspects of themselves. This goes deeper than just boy bands. Sure. I guess this is rolling in the deep, I’m moving ahead too far, but I’ll remind me to talk about, I, we have to, we’re not going in order. Like I wanna talk to everybody about what I talk to Teen girls about when it comes to music and movies and such.

Cathy: So, but we should probably start with setting the scene.

Todd: Okay. Um, I’m gonna lead this just because I’m worried that you’re gonna, you know, you, you can fill the next 90 minutes or however long this podcast is gonna be by yourself. But I feel like I’m just gonna throw kind of some of these ideas at you. Okay. But the setting the scene is, I kind of wanna give a basic history of what I understand to be the evolution of boy band.

Cathy: Can I, I’d like to be able to add in there. You’re gonna add in the whole time. Okay, good.

Todd: So we’re gonna [00:07:00] start with the pre-history.

Cathy: Okay.

Todd: So. And I can fifties to seventies. Yes. So who are the bands that set the stage for boy bands to be this vehicle of popularity, of music, of moneymaking. So, yes. Um, go ahead.

Todd: No, you said you wanted to lead it. No, no. Do you want me to Who, who are the bands? Oh, Jackson Five. Um, even before Jackson Five. Let’s, before that

Cathy: the Osmonds.

Todd: I was gonna say The Beatles.

Cathy: The Oh, of course The Beatles. I going way back. Yeah. Yeah. Beatles and The Monkeys. You know The Beatles. Yeah. The Beatles are, Todd and I talked about when doing this podcast, if you go too far back, it becomes too big, right?

Cathy: Yeah. And so you are a hundred percent right? Like, does anyone look at The Beatles and go, that’s a boy band. Course not. They, they are their own thing.

Todd: And I can already hear people saying, what, how, why would you even say that? Yeah. ’cause John and Paul are the best singer songwriters of all time. Got it.

Clip: We got it.

Todd: Understood. We gotcha. Understand. Um, but the Monkeys were a manufactured band. Correct. They took these random guys who looked a certain way, who didn’t necessarily [00:08:00] were great. Mu weren’t necessarily great musicians, put ’em all together and there was a successful TV show and band that resulted, they were

Cathy: created for that.

Cathy: So

Todd: it’s not like the Backstreet Boys or No New Kids? No. New Kids In the Block were not created. There were a bunch of guys that knew each other. Mm-hmm. So Backstreet Boys were maybe the first of the era and, and I’m getting ahead of my Yeah, like you’re, this is, this gets a little, so that’s sixties and seventies.

Todd: Okay. And then it says, and I, you know, I had did a little research. It says Menudo Correct. In the eighties. Mm-hmm. Um,

Cathy: wait a few more. Like in the sixties and seventies. ’cause we have the Jackson five who definitely were, uh, they influenced nk, um, OTB, which is New Kids on the Block. Yeah. For those of you, we’ll be using acronyms.

Cathy: Um, the Osmonds, um, bay City Rollers. Remember the Bay City Rollers? No. I mean, I, I know the band, but I can’t think of it. Um, and even the Bee Gees, again, much more talented songwriters. I get it. I’m not, you know, again, we’re gonna talk more about the nineties, early two thousands boy bands, but these are the influences.

Cathy: Mm-hmm. And so you have to remember, like it all, you know, there’s a reason why we [00:09:00] continue doing the things we do because it’s worked historically. So now you’re onto the eighties Manto.

Todd: Okay. So, and what I didn’t understand is I thought Manto was a band. That stayed together the whole time. Correct. And they are not, and they float people.

Todd: It’s kind of smart, like Yeah, because so they age out. They age out. Mm-hmm. And they bring new talent in. I didn’t know that. Have you known that the whole time?

Cathy: I have. Only not because I’ve ever been a huge Manto fan, but because I was a Ricky Martin fan, I knew his history and I knew that he was like little Ricky and Minuto and then Face out.

Todd: Yes. So and so, and then as far as I could tell, and you tell me if I’m wrong, um, oh, and then we should probably talk about New Edition, correct? Right. New edition’s a big part of this too. Okay. And, uh, because they were a big part of the documentary, I just watched as, um. And can you name the New edition people?

Cathy: Let’s see. Uh, well, I can say it this way. We’ve got, um, Bobby Brown. Okay. And then he kind of went out on his own. And then Bel biv. Devoe. Mm-hmm. Um, is that the guy’s

Todd: name? Bel Biv. De

Cathy: No, [00:10:00] that’s Bel Biv. Devoux are the three other guys. Like that’s their Okay. They became Bel Biv. Devoe. Got it. Um, or it’s Ronnie, Bobby Ricky and Mike Ricky.

Cathy: That’s

Todd: right. You got to cool it. Now. Slow down. Ronnie, Bobby, Ricky, and Mike. Uh, you’re not

Cathy: gonna play it?

Todd: I, no, I don’t have it available to me right now. Oh, bummer. Well, it’s, how is it not available? Well, it is, but I’m in the middle of a anecdote. Got it, got it, got it. And I,

Cathy: yes, that takes precedent.

Todd: Um, so, but new, um, new Edition.

Todd: Correct. Did you like them?

Cathy: Yes.

Todd: Okay.

Cathy: I did it not, uh, in a, in a way that I liked those songs because Cool. It now and cool. I think Mr. Telephone man, Mr. Telephone. Man, there’s something wrong with my line. Wasn’t that one of their songs too? Oh, there it’s.

Todd: Sounds like he’s got some telephone [00:11:00] issues.

Cathy: Yeah. They gotta think. I’ll work on

Todd: that. Um, so before I get into NK, OTB, Uhhuh, who am I missing?

Cathy: Um, let’s see. I, that’s kind of all I put here. And I just wanna reiterate, if you’re listening and you’re like, no, what about these guys? Yeah, we’re gonna, we’re gonna miss a lot of this.

Cathy: We are, we’re gonna, and we’re gonna kind of like go, like some of them are in the best band. Some of them have a best song, some of them, so they’re all over the board.

Todd: Yeah.

Cathy: But I would say who we just mentioned is the beginning.

Todd: Okay. So then we have new kids on the block and that was. Formed. Like who, who, do you remember who formed that?

Todd: Or were they they were all neighborhood kids from, yeah. Massachusetts.

Cathy: I think they’re kind of in their title there. Demonstr. I, here’s a very interesting thing and I, I’m, it’s digging a little bit into remember when, but let me say this because it’s funny to me. New kids on the block became popular right when I got to college.

Cathy: Okay. So it was like late 1989. They may have had been around a, a year before that, or a couple years before that, but that’s when I [00:12:00] really knew them.

Clip: Mm-hmm.

Cathy: Um, ’cause I think they were formed in the early eighties, but that’s when they hit the mainstream and I felt I was too old to like them.

Clip: Yes.

Cathy: Which is so funny to be here doing a, like, you know, a boy bands conversation and I’m 54,

Cathy: sweetie. They are hanging top. I had two girls in my sorority, um, my friend, uh, Jen and Christie, who they were in my pledge class, and they loved N-K-O-T-B, like they loved them.

Todd: So, so it says, uh, new kids was 1988. Does that sound about

Cathy: right? Because that was the end of my, that was my senior year, and then I went to college the fall of 89.

Todd: Okay. Yeah. And then their big song, I think, was this one. Tell me if I’m wrong, it’s the Right stuff. Oh, I was gonna do this one instead.

Clip: Yep.

Cathy: By step, I would say if someone was gonna [00:13:00] talk about the Backstreet, or excuse me, sorry. They, they’re on my brain. It’s a, if we were gonna talk about the NKO tb, they would think about the oh, oh oh, that one.

Todd: The right stuff. Mm-hmm. All right.

Cathy: Because remember the dance moves, you know.

Todd: No, I don’t.

Cathy: Um,

Todd: I, I’m, I’m gonna count the number of times where you’re like, oh, you remember when, blah, blah, blah.

Cathy: I’m just gonna keep doing it because I just like to pretend we’re on the same.

Todd: Um, did you like, how, how much did you like these guys?

Cathy: I know all of them. I can name all of them for you. Um, go ahead. I, let’s see, we got, um, Joey McIntyre, we got Jordan Knight, we got Jonathan Knight. You have a buddy who lives next door to Jordan Knight. Do I? Yeah. Remember we were having a conversation with someone.

Cathy: It wasn’t Sean, was it? Someone was like, yeah, I live right down the street from either Jordan or Jonathan. Um, and then we have, um, Wahlberg, Donny Wahlberg. Yeah. Who lives in

Todd: state. Danny Wahlberg, uh, the guy who, um, in the beginning of the sixth sense. Correct. He, he’s in the sixth [00:14:00] sense and he, he’s in his underwear.

Todd: He is the one that,

Cathy: you know, starts the whole thing. Starts the whole thing. He shoots, uh, the doctor. He shoots Bruce Willis. Yes. That is Donny Wahlberg. And he’s in, he’s now in a cop show. He is been in a cop show forever. Some version of NCIU Black. Blood Blue. Blue Bloods. Blue Bloods, one of those. Um, and he’s married to Jenny McCarthy and they actually live here in St.

Cathy: Charles, outside of the city. Okay. And then so who is that? Is that everybody? Joey Jor? No, there’s one more guy. Danny Wood, I think is the fifth guy.

Todd: Uh, I have it somewhere, but I, okay.

Cathy: So anyway, I know them. They were everywhere. Um, I didn’t, it’s interesting because considering how much I liked the previous bands we talked about N-K-O-T-B were kind of not on my radar.

Cathy: And it’s interesting because I knew them, but I was in college and so that was when I started going out and everyone is playing Grateful Dead. I started listening to James Taylor all the time, Kat Stevens, um, you know, van Morrison, like my tastes were [00:15:00] changing. Yeah. Um, they were evolving, they were growing and so it was like no one was playing N-K-O-T-B at

Todd: a, at a fraternity party.

Todd: So before we get into the Golden Age, which is BS, B and nsync. Correct. There’s one more band that I feel like we should mention. Let’s do it. And I think it is this one.

Cathy: Oh, for sure. Yep.

Todd: What is Boys to Men? First of all, some good looking guys.

Cathy: They’re amazing and really good sake. Their voices, right? So voice to men.

Cathy: Their harmonies are the harmonies of all harmonies. You know what I mean? Oh yes. Like people, um, they influenced so many other bands. You know, they were really the beginning. They don’t

Todd: get credit for that. What is their most famous song, or which one do you think of when you hear Boys to Men?

Cathy: Let’s see. I would say End of the Road is probably the one you just played is really big.

Cathy: What about this one? This one? Oh, I’ll make love to you. Exactly. This is the most popular one. [00:16:00] My favorite one was, uh, called Water One Runs Dry. I actually played it for you in the car a while ago and I was like, oh, I remember that voice. Fun. No, you don’t. No, I don’t. Um, and I really like that they did a song with Mariah Carey that got really popular.

Cathy: Like they,

Clip: some people

Todd: I love like the sound. It’s like, think about these guys. And I don’t d squat about ’em, but it’s all about their voice. Like the music is almost a, in the background, in the background, it’s almost acapella. Right. So did these guys, um, you know, obviously these are African American men and then Backstreet Boys come in.

Todd: Did they like move boys to men to the side? Well, like what happened to boys to Men?

Cathy: I honestly, I don’t know the dates. Like, I don’t know what hit when, but like I said, boys to Men had plenty of number one. Hits. And then, like I said, they were working with Mariah Carey, who was huge at the time, so I don’t know if they got, they got sidelined Okay.

Cathy: In that moment. Um, but I don’t think they got the credit that they deserve for [00:17:00] really being the beginning of all this.

Todd: So sweetie, yes. You and I started connecting, let’s say dating, whatever. Yes. In April of 1993, or? No, it was probably March or February of 93. It was before spring break. So it was March. So March 93.

Todd: Mm-hmm. In April.

Cathy: Mm-hmm.

Todd: Backstreet Boys formed.

Cathy: Wow. Todd,

Todd: can you believe that

Cathy: this is basically like the Taylor Swift, uh, Travis Kelsey interview where they figure out all this numerology and this connection and why they’re family

Todd: who, maybe the only reason we connected is because somewhere in Orlando, Florida, there was a band that you were going to love and bring me to all

Cathy: the shows.

Todd: All the shows. Maybe it was all kind of meant to be universally. I think I, Todd, I think you just. I feel like we should have two different podcasts. One is about performative masculinity, whatever. We’re calling this podcast with all the boys boy bands. And I feel like we should have a second one just about the Backstreet Boys.

Todd: ’cause it’s almost like I

Cathy: suggested that to you and you said no.

Todd: Well, I just, I don’t know where to [00:18:00] go because now we’re at Backstreet Boys and I feel like we could spend the next 90 minutes on the Backstreet Boys and I don’t know how I’m gonna cut you off once we start. So what do you wanna say about this band?

Cathy: Well, I mean, they’re gonna come up 80 times Okay. In this podcast. So I’m not gonna do it all now. So let’s name, let’s name

Todd: the members. Let’s start there.

Cathy: The guys.

Todd: Yes.

Cathy: Okay. So I’ll start with Nick Carter.

Todd: Mm-hmm.

Cathy: Uh, Brian Latrell. Um, Howie Dee Howie

Todd: d

Cathy: Why

Todd: is why everybody else has their last name. But Howie, I think people just the band.

Todd: If you’re, if you’re a fan, you just, you last name. Um. Uh, he’s probably fine with you not knowing his sense.

Cathy: You know what I do, but I am feeling, I’m feeling stuck ’cause I’m moving on to AJ McClain. Uh, Kevin Richardson. I always just call him Howie D.

Todd: Okay. And, um, and who organized this band? Uh, Lou Pearlman and Lou Pearlman.

Todd: Sounds like some really, uh, wildly popular musical talent.

Cathy: No.

Todd: Okay. Who was Lou Pearlman?

Cathy: Uh, Lou Pearlman was a man who was somewhat of a grifter who learned how to [00:19:00] make money and was not great with his finances, but figured out the boy bands were, what was his quote that he would always say there as, as, as long as there’s little girls, right?

Cathy: There’s boy band, long boy bands. Um, and he decided to, uh, it’s really interesting ’cause we, I didn’t do all this deep research, I’m just kind of going off of my head, but Orlando was really a hub mm-hmm. During this time. Yeah. So not only was there the Mickey Mouse Club, which we know, you know, that’s who.

Cathy: Britney Spears was there. Christina Aguilera was there. Um, Ryan Gosling was there. Justin Timberlake was there. JC Zay was there. Carrie, um, Underwood, no, uh, Carrie from Carrie Russell was in there. So there was like, there was a lot of talent being developed in the Mickey Mouse Club. Yeah. And that was in Orlando.

Cathy: And also in Orlando is where Lou Perlman found the Backstreet Boys. He did like an open listing call. So,

Todd: so just so everybody knows, the reason that Lou had this idea is because he, [00:20:00] he wanted to make money. He was chartering airplanes. Yes.

Cathy: Yes.

Todd: He had some company where, uh, famous or rich people mm-hmm.

Todd: Would use his services to fly from one place to another. And he realized that these younger kids Correct. Were getting on these airplanes. Like, how are these guys making money? Which is hilarious. Yeah. Like you would think out of all the people that could choose to form a boy band, it wouldn’t be this broker of airplanes.

Todd: Right. This guy Lou. Um, and we could do another podcast on this guy, but I think he wasn’t the most ethical of people. No, not at all. Just say that he

Cathy: stole money from people. He, he had committed bank fraud. He had a really, really shoddy contract for BSB and NSYNC because he also found it in sync. Um, you know, one thing that’s really interesting, and I’m just gonna do it here.

Cathy: Yeah. Go. Is that really, when you think about the most, like the heart of boy bands, again, there’s all, they’re all over the place, but there’s two versions of creating them. And one way was the Lou Pearlman way, which is you go out and you [00:21:00] find a bunch of people, you bring them together, and then you make them a team.

Clip: Yeah.

Cathy: So there’s no real big star. Yeah. It’s just the five of them are a team and you, as you, the word you keep using is you manufacture them. Yeah. Let me say this, so the, the boys that he’s bringing in are talented in their own right. It’s not that he like taught them to sing. Mm-hmm. They were talented, but then he brought them together and made them a team.

Cathy: He did the exact same thing with nsync. The other version was the Simon Cowell version, which is, he was like, no, we’re gonna do a TV show like American Idol or The Voice, or the X Factor, and we are going to bring in talented people who are individuals in their own right. They’re trying to sing, they want their own, um, career, but then I’m gonna p pick out the best ones and make them a team.

Cathy: Mm-hmm. But really they’re a group of individuals like you, for example, you know, he created One Direction, he put them together. We know majority of people who like One Direction know every single one of them. Mm-hmm. They know their names, they know [00:22:00] who they like the best. All of them now have career.

Cathy: Unfortunately, Liam Payne died. But,

Todd: so in other words, what you’re saying is the Lou Pearlman way is like, we’re going to give them kind of a generic front, correct. All of these individuals, but we’re gonna kind of blend them as one single thing where Simon Cowell was like, let’s make. Everybody aware of each of these individuals?

Todd: Correct.

Cathy: Or that’s the way they’re presented to us because they were presented to us on tv. Oh, okay. Pearlman’s was kind of behind the scenes. Got it. It’s like, here you go. Then he, he put it together, then presented them. So, I mean, KA said, here’s everybody, they’re on tv who are the fan favorites. He did it with Fifth Harmony Too, which is where Camilla Kba came from.

Cathy: Yeah. And she was, there’s no way she could have stayed there. Yeah. If she had to launch out. But if you think about One Direction Yeah. People know of them. They’re like, that’s Harry, that’s Liam, that’s Nile. That’s Zane. And I don’t, can’t remember the last one.

Todd: Well, we’ll get to that, but before we move on from Backstreet Boys.

Todd: Okay. Believe me, we’re gonna come back to that. We’re

Cathy: not moving on.

Todd: [00:23:00] Um, this was, I think, their first big one. Is that right?

Cathy: It was their first, uh, hit in the United States.

Todd: Do you remember this song coming out? And we a hundred percent. So like you were on board from the beginning. It’s day one. Interesting.

Todd: Yeah.

Cathy: Now not in the way that I am now. Like my, that was not the song that got me in big time. Right. That was not the song. That was your

Todd: introduction

Cathy: to That was the introduction and I think their video was kind of hilarious. ’cause they’re all in the rain. Yeah. And they’re all getting really wet. Oh yeah.

Cathy: And so they were parrot

Todd: so Right. And they’re like super sexual, you know, they got their washboard stomach. They’re like,

Cathy: we’re gonna be hot and we’re gonna, it’s really smart because

Todd: that’s what sells records. Correct. Just like when, you know, you see all the supermodels on the beer commercials. Correct.

Todd: Okay. So that was 93. So two years later NSYNC shows up. Correct. Do you want to talk a little bit about how they showed up and how it got contentious?

Cathy: Yeah. They were also a [00:24:00] Lou Pearlman created band. He said, Hey, I did it once. I’m gonna do it again. And he did it in Orlando again. And he brought in these guys and, um, he formed a band.

Cathy: Um, it was very contentious because Backstreet Boys are like, what the hell are you doing? Yeah. Like, we just got here. Why are you creating another band and marketing them in the exact same way and almost, and if you watch the documentary, um, not larger than life, but Dirty Pop, I think it’s called. Okay. Um, he really kind of pits ’em against each other, you know?

Cathy: And it’s interesting because we now, many of them are friends and it’s not contentious, but they had, they were young boys. Yeah. And they had this adult man.

Todd: Well, and Luke Pearlman is like all these other record. People that are just trying to make as much money as they can. Correct. Um, he didn’t care about their Yeah, they don’t care about the talent.

Todd: They don’t care about the art. They wanna make money. Correct. And what he said was, you know, two us better

Cathy: than one.

Todd: Yeah. Like, you got McDonald’s and you got a Burger King. Correct. Let’s do both. Kinda like, didn’t uh, Facebook do that? Like with Instagram? Like, I’m like, why are we doing two things? And then I think Facebook bought [00:25:00] Instagram, Facebook,

Cathy: well, they bought Instagram so nobody else would buy Instagram.

Cathy: Right.

Todd: So now all of a sudden, yeah. Uh, let’s have that way. If they choose, they choose between both of our options. They’re, they’re ours. Which makes

Cathy: sense. So, yeah. And, and the probably, um. Why I tell that story about that I thought I was too old for N-K-O-T-B, is that once I was really into Backstreet Boys, I was like 25.

Cathy: And then when NSYNC came along, it was around, like you said, you know, I was 25, 26, whatever. And a lot of arguments that I would have with other women were about who was better.

Clip: Yeah.

Cathy: And I, and let me be clear, I’m very much like Cub Socks, meaning I am, you’re always like, I’m a socks fan, but Cubs are my second favorite.

Cathy: I, I was a Backstreet Boys fan, but I did like N Sync. I wasn’t like, I’m not gonna listen to this. I loved some of, well, did you ever

Todd: hear like, oh, do you like N Nirvana or Pearl Jack didn’t. Well, most of us, yeah. They’re both really good musicians. So why don’t we appreciate, but one thing I learned in the documentary was, um, that [00:26:00] why do boy bands, uh.

Todd: Have this, this impact. Mm-hmm. And I think the, you know, obviously you were 25 when whoever came out, but it’s, it’s, it’s designed for kind of the 13 to 17-year-old girls who haven’t yet really started dating, or at least not any, any type of seriousness. And it gives them. Kind of an outlet and they would like pick their favorite one within the new kids or within Backstreet Boys or within nsync.

Todd: Like, they like the whole band, but they like Brian the best or they like AJ the best. And I think it’s just a, it’s a coming of age experience for, for girls that age,

Cathy: it’s a hundred percent a coming of age experience. We did, you know, one of our podcasts that we did, uh, Zen Pop, we did The Outsiders. They were not a band, but it was the exact same thing.

Cathy: You’ve got the Outsiders coming into your life. I was 12 or 13 years old. Who’s your favorite one? You put ’em all over your walls. It’s the exact same thing with boy bands. And that’s why Lou Pearlman hate to say it, but he’s right. [00:27:00] As long as there’s young girls, there’s always gonna be a desire to look at kind of safer male figures.

Cathy: You know, you, it’s not like a 13-year-old is like looking at Brad Pitt and going, I’m gonna, you know, I’m gonna marry that guy. Like he’s in his fifties, you know? So you, it’s somebody that is closer to your age and, and that’s what’s kind of interesting about I John. Chad, go ahead. Um, we like, it’s funny that I thought I was too old at 18.

Cathy: Yeah. And then I’m 25 and I’m like, well, and now I’m back in.

Todd: Now we’re 54. And but

Cathy: it becomes, that’s the performative masculinity part, is that there is something that they do and sing about that becomes attractive regardless if you’re 13 or in your twenties or fifties. They sing about things about loving you and caring about you and seeing you and asking for forgiveness, saying all the things that, all the things that are nice to hear.

Cathy: Yes. Right. And it’s part of the reason guys don’t like [00:28:00] them.

Todd: Well, and it’s funny because, um, if I am a straight guy and I want to be where girls are, duh. I remember one of my buddies, I won’t name his name just ’cause he didn’t ask to be named, but he went to Lilith Fair. I’m like, oh, that’s weird. He’s like, dude.

Todd: Why would you not wanna go to Lilith Fair?

Cathy: I know, even though Lilith fair def definitely has a huge gay contingency too. Like not everyone, there’s a

Todd: bunch of women there. Let’s

Cathy: just say there are, and if you just are going to look and just enjoy being around women, I’m all in. It’s just, or like

Todd: if I, you know, um, just for the record, I was not a big, um, schmoozer of women.

Todd: Let’s say you were not, well, that’s not the right word. That’s the word. You

Cathy: were not, you didn’t

Todd: pursue women, you weren’t really a play. Yeah. I, I was more interested in having fun with my buddies. Okay. Okay. Yes. But if, if I was interested in trying to hook up with as many women as I could, uhhuh, there’s a lot of straight guys that are in the arts, dancing, and drama and all that.

Todd: Like, I can, like is there a better place to be, be a straight [00:29:00] guy as a ballet dancer or something. I know, I know. Forget about the world. Right. I am totally with you. And, and yet us like bros. Make fun of those guys. Yeah. I’m like, all right, you guys keep hanging in your basement, doing your thing. I’m gonna go to a place where the, there’s a bunch of women here.

Todd: Mm-hmm. And like, I’m the one of the only straight guys here. Yeah. Correct. Duh.

Cathy: Yeah. If you wanna meet a woman, there are obvious places. They go. And if you don’t have to be like, I love this too, but you can appreciate it. Sure. You can ask questions and understand why you can learn more about a woman by the things she appreciates.

Cathy: You know? There’s often deeper reason behind it. And you know, and I’m talking about, I’m not just talking about boy bands, I’m talking about the ballet. Yeah. I’m talking about Broadway. I’m talking about theater. Yeah. I’m talking because there’s this emotional component that I think, again, performative, masculinity wise, you guys in the man box, there’s this feeling that you guys can’t access that.

Cathy: No, we

Todd: can’t. But that. So we make

Cathy: fun of it. We’re scared of it. You make fun of it.

Todd: And if the part of us that we push down that we all have [00:30:00]

Cathy: Correct. I was gonna say, you can access. And I think that’s a really beautiful part and a heteronormative relationship where you’re good friends, like you know, Todd and I, man, woman, we’re good friends.

Cathy: I think one of the things that we. Do well is introduce things to each other that we love. And it does. And, and I have never been like, Todd, I like this. You need to like it too. But I’ve been like, here’s why I like it. And he’s been like, oh, that’s interesting to me. And I have had the exact same experience with him.

Cathy: And it’s not just sports, it’s, you know, music that he listens to or events he likes to attend, or, you know, like that’s what we’re supposed to do to each other. Or is like wake up other aspects of our, you know, brain. We’re

Todd: rolling in the deep a little bit. So we

Cathy: are so, this is so messy. This, we’re

Todd: gonna be all aboard.

Todd: Let’s don’t, they don’t care. Okay. They don’t care. Hold on. I, I, I, I, so first of all, we’ve said in sync, but we haven’t played any of their music yet.

Todd: What is their second. Best, this is their [00:31:00] most popular song, right? Yeah. What, what would, and I, I’m asking ’cause I don’t know.

Cathy: Well, I would say my other two favorite songs by and Sync is, um, tearing Up My Heart, which was my first song that I heard by them. And then my other favorite song is It’s Gonna Be Me.

Cathy: Those are my two favorites.

Clip: So on me Girl. I am.

Todd: Oh. And then as I’m looking at this video, these guys are kind of silly and funny. I feel like Backstreet Boys took themselves more serious. Seriously? Yeah. Well that was the way they were marketed. Yes.

Cathy: You have to remember, sometimes we associate marketing with That’s who they are.

Cathy: Yeah. And you have to remember that there’s a plan. Yeah. And they’re like, this is how we’re gonna market you. Right. And so again, Lou Pearlman is like, I gotta have a bounce off of that. Right. So these guys make down to earth. Yeah.

Todd: Um, okay, so that’s enough within nsync. Can we go to go? So

Cathy: can I talk, are we gonna talk more about the nineties here?

Cathy: Like are you I’m still,

Todd: no, no, I’m still going down the history. Go. We’re gonna end up with K-Pop. But [00:32:00] first we, uh,

Cathy: I have no information about K-pop.

Todd: Oh, sweetie. I got, I got just worlds of information because,

Cathy: so that is like where my knowledge ends.

Todd: First of all, I’ve seen some of these guys in the interview now, like they’re, it’s just funny to see them as grown men.

Cathy: They’re children in that video. They’re literally, they’re on skateboards

Todd: and they’re little, they’re little brother. They’re, they’re all brothers. But first of all, totally catchy tune.

Cathy: It’s

Todd: Hanson,

Cathy: by the way. It’s

Todd: Hanson. And they, I think they’re all musicians. Is that correct? Correct. Big time. They’re like, so this is a little bit different. Yeah. So were like, it’s evolved. It’s evolving a bit.

Cathy: They were a homeschooled, like that’s like a family. And the boys were homeschooled and they became really good musicians all in their own Right.

Cathy: Wrote their own music, played their own instruments. Mm-hmm. So,

Todd: um, and then, so it is talking about a little bit of the rivalries between Yeah. NSYNC and BSB, but we’re not gonna go there. Uh, some [00:33:00] secondary players, uh, emerge. Is there anybody that pops to you regarding. Less popular, but impactful?

Cathy: Well, it depends on the year.

Cathy: Like in, are we talking uk? Um, as well, it’s up to you. Whatever, wherever we go. I mean, because I like to take that, um, yeah, I’ve never heard of them, but they, they were all over my

Todd: research

Cathy: who picked that, uh, take that They just, they were also, I think put together by Simon Cowell. Okay. Um, and see, ’cause you remember, you gotta remember Simon Cowell started everything in the uk.

Cathy: Mm-hmm. Like, then he came here and did American Idol, but he had, was already doing that there. Um, so they, um, the wanted was kind of big. That was a little later. That was more, um, but let’s see, west Life, I was not into West Life. Um, and then, uh, 98 Degrees, I listened to. Yeah.

Todd: All right, so let’s take that call back for good.

Cathy: And like the UK versions were like more, not slick in marketing, but they were, it was, the music was produced so differently. It was like sweet.

Todd: Yeah.

Cathy: Does that make sense? It was like [00:34:00] so lovely. Yeah. That’s what I always think about. Take that.

Todd: Um, um, and then this is, do you know who this is?

Todd: This what life This is 98 degrees called because of you. Oh, I didn’t know this was 98 Degrees.

Cathy: Who’s 98 Degrees? Are they American or British? No, they’re American. That’s Nicholas. She and then his brother and then a few other guys. My 98 degrees song is the hardest thing. Okay. That’s, that was the song that I liked the most.

Clip: Can see what you mean.

Todd: So I feel like they’re probably the most popular one that isn’t a. Insync and Backstreet Boys, would you agree with that?

Cathy: Say they got the most, uh, and a lot of that had to do. Okay. So you got Nick, she as their lead singer. He’s so attractive. He’s such a good singer. And then the whole Jessica Simpson marriage, they had a reality show.

Cathy: It brought a lot of attention to them. Now she is married to Vanessa. Anyway. They do, I think love is blind. He’s, he’s had a continuing career.

Todd: Okay. [00:35:00] Um, all right. So anything else about the secondary players? ’cause then I want to get into, um, when, and maybe I’m skipping a bunch of things, but, uh, one direction.

Cathy: Yeah. So I guess the only other ones let’s, BB m was around. Um, and then O Town was a created band that they actually did on tv. Okay. Um, so it was a reality show where they were trying to find, you know, the right guys Yeah. To be in. Um, and then there was another band called a boy band called Dream Street, and their lead singer was Jesse McCartney.

Cathy: And he ended up having his own, uh, solo career kind of like. Uh, the kind of, it reminds me of Aaron Carter’s career. That was Nick Carter’s brother. Okay. Uh, who ended up having a solo career. Right. And then, you know, the, again, there was a few others, but that’s, that’s the gist for me. Okay. Uh, then you can go into more post TRL.

Cathy: Okay. You know what I mean? Because all of the, you know what I mean by TRL?

Todd: Oh, we should probably talk about TRL. [00:36:00] Yeah. Like that was MTV a huge ’cause people could vote. Total request live. Mm-hmm. So people called in or something. Mm-hmm. And then they would bring them in studio. Correct.

Cathy: It was all live and it was all,

Todd: it was all at Times Square.

Cathy: Yes. And they could, people could see it and watch it. And what was his name? Carson Daley.

Todd: Yes. I think was the host. Yeah. Um, did you, you were probably too old to watch that dude. So you’d come home as like a, I mean,

Cathy: no, not the way a teenage would. I was working a full-time

Todd: job. It’s just, but you didn’t ask your boss if you could leave early, so to watch

Cathy: TRL No, I think at that point in my life, I was in grad school, I was working at the, um, hospital.

Cathy: I was taking classes. Like I had an internship. Like things were crazy. Yeah. So, no, I wasn’t spending my time watching TRL, but I’m just, I would, even if it was the fact that I’d get People magazine every week. Yeah. I would see. Right. Like it’s, it was less about being the ultimate teen fan and more about like, it was pop culture.

Todd: All right. What about, what about these guys

Clip: say,[00:37:00]

Cathy: you know what, what? Love One Direction. I’m glad we’re going in this direction. Yep. But you did skip the Jonas Brothers.

Todd: Oh yeah. What’s up with those guys? That they’re post TRL as well. Okay. Let me see if I can come up with any good songs by these guys. Um, is this a good song? Probably not.

Todd: Does it do anything for you?

Cathy: I, I have some of their songs on my best list, so I’m not gonna bring much.

Todd: This one. This is their revival.

Clip: She,

Clip: they’re on

Cathy: tour right now, dude. They’re still around. I’m a sucker for you. They are touring and they are bringing in, um, and did they all sort all sorts of other nineties, like hit Makers? Like they had the click on the other night or click five maybe they’re called. They had Demi Lovato with them. They had Hansen with them a couple nights ago.

Cathy: So they’re on a [00:38:00] revival tour

Todd: right now. Got it. And they were in between One Direction and the B Yeah, they were 2005.

Cathy: So Jonas Brothers are very millennial. Like this is what Maddie liked, my niece who’s like, you know, close to 30 now.

Todd: So, and everybody had to have a favorite brother.

Cathy: Right. So I was having children at this time.

Cathy: I was in the middle of parenting, so I know very, now I know things about the Jonas Brothers, but I was not involved in this music at all. Got it.

Todd: Okay. Um, so then we have One direction. So what, what are the three Jonas Brothers names Nick, Joe, and Kevin. Good old Kevin and is one kind of the front man?

Cathy: Well, it depends.

Cathy: I mean, Kevin is definitely not, he’s like background. He’s older, he married early. Um, Nick is more of their, excuse me, Joe is more of their lead singer. He obviously has a history with Taylor Swift and became really famous that way. And then he married, did he write any songs about

Todd: him? Of course. Which ones?

Cathy: Um, I’d say the majority of speak now is about him. Um, is there you, the one you love so much, Mr. Perfectly fine. Yeah. Don’t you love or um, I bet you think about me or No, no, that’s Jake Gyllenhaal. But [00:39:00] she, there was a whole album about Joe Jonas

Todd: and we don’t know for sure whether or not this song was about Joe Do happy.

Todd: This is about Joe.

Clip: Mr gives you all the,

Clip: I hear he’s got his arm around the brand. So,

Cathy: and we know this for sure because she, okay. Just a little connection here. Taylor Swift is friends with Sophie Turner who Joe Jonas used to be married to. They have since divorced, but she. Sophie and Joe were together when this song came out and Sophie like posted something with Joe saying, you know, with Mr.

Cathy: Perfectly fine today. Like, they all are kind of know. Got it. Because that was a re-release song that that was a vault song. Oh, interesting. So that didn’t come out with the album that came out when she re-released.

Clip: Geez.

Cathy: Um, but she also has a, a phrase in one of her songs about, and now I send, uh, baby Gifts to my exes Uhhuh, and she’s talking about Sophie and Joe.

Cathy: Okay. Um, but then Nick Jonas is also somewhat of a lead singer, you know what I mean? Like he [00:40:00] had, and he’s also, he was a lead guitarist and songwriter, and he, um, you know, had his own whole thing,

Todd: wasn’t it? Wasn’t one of ’em on the, the show with the chairs and they turn around. Yes. That’s Nick. Uh, what was the name of that show?

Todd: Uh, the

Cathy: Voice. Oh. And he’s, uh, you know, he’s got his, he, he went solo for a while. Like, so they, and Nick, excuse me, Joe was also in the band. Um. DNCE, they sang that cake by the Ocean song. Oh, I know that song. Yeah. That’s Joe Jonas and I saw Joe Jonas in concert when he was, um, with them. I believe I, it was more of like a bunch of bands together, but he was there.

Clip: God, Jim, see Frozen from your own.

Todd: So is this his band? Yeah.

Cathy: I mean, it’s him with other,

Todd: is there any other famous people? Not that I’m aware of. Okay. Oh wow. So he had a pretty good hit there by himself. He sure did. Or this band that he made. Um, so I, I feel like we need to give a little more love to One Direction.

Todd: Correct. But maybe that’s just ’cause I [00:41:00] love Harry.

Cathy: Yeah. Um, well, and, but One Direction is more important to us because that was when our girls were off that, that’s it. That’s when they started to like boy bands.

Todd: Now what? As our daughter’s relationship with One Direction. ’cause I know some of Cameron’s friends were like head over heels.

Cathy: Correct. I would say that they Cameron’s probably, well gee, they all like them, but maybe not in the way that because Okay. They kind of, they got big in like 2010 and so my girls were still kind of in elementary school. Right. But they, they were around long enough that my girls got to enjoy them. But I would say they were more, not that I’m pitting these two against each other, but my girls were obsessed with Taylor Swift.

Cathy: Yeah. And they liked Yes. One direction. Yes. But now Cameron is a huge Nile fan.

Todd: I went to see Nile with Cameron. Yeah. In DC mm-hmm. Or Virginia, wherever we were. And I loved it.

Cathy: It was wonderful. Yeah. And we, our whole family saw Harry Styles twice. Like, we’re, but everyone’s a Harry Styles fan. We did, yeah.

Cathy: You went with her in [00:42:00] Vegas, right? Yes. Right. Yeah. And then I went with the girls here with my sister. Oh, okay. Mm-hmm. Yeah. We had our masks on in Vegas. Oh, wow. Brutal. It, it was his very first show.

Todd: Very first show. Yeah. And he crushed it. He did. He did an awesome female drummer. And she was like, she’s still there.

Todd: I know. Um, what’s your favorite one direction song?

Cathy: Well, that’s in my top 10 list, but I’ll tell you now. Um, is Oh God. See the, okay. So In the Best, in the Best song, in the best list that I have, I put Best Song Ever. Okay. That’s my favorite. But my real favorite song is different.

Todd: Oh, is that’s the name of the song?

Todd: It’s called Different, no, no, it’s called

Cathy: They Don’t Know About Us. Okay. That’s my real favorite.

Todd: Let’s just stay with this one first.

Clip: Do the splits and Liam used that. Exactly. What is that article?

Cathy: I have no idea what you’re playing.

Todd: It says One Direction Best song ever. But I think it’s like, um, that was part of the video set up.

Cathy: This is just a great song.[00:43:00]

Clip: And Daddy was,

Todd: and is this the band where the one guy died? Correct. That’s Liam Payne. He died last year. Yeah. And it was a really big deal. Awful. Oh my God. It’s awful. He was intoxicated and he fell off a balcony. Well, um, yeah, I have a whole thing

Cathy: about it. Oh, did you want me to tell you about it? Yeah, we’re here.

Cathy: Go ahead. Okay. Let me see if I can find it in my pages. What I will see while you’re waiting for me play my real favorite song, which is called um, they Don’t Know About Us and it’s actually kind of a B-side song, but I remember being like, wow, that’s such a good song and I don’t even know who introduced it to me.

Clip: A believer every kiss, it’s a little

Cathy: sweeter. Like what I try and do is be really honest on the show about, like, I look at my real playlist and say, what do I listen to? Yeah. Like, I’m trying not to give you guys all the hits and be like, ah, right. So that’s that song I listen to a lot. Okay. Like, it’s on a bunch of playlists.

Cathy: [00:44:00] Okay. This is what happened to Liam Payne. Um, he died on October 16th, 2024. He was 31. He fell from a third door, uh, third floor balcony in Buenos Aires, Argentina. Um, it was ruled a tragic fall, uh, with no defensive injuries. That’s how they know, you know, he didn’t try and stop it from happening, um, with no evidence of foul play.

Cathy: But, uh, and the official death cause of death was polytrauma, which means obviously trauma, multiple injuries. Um, but the toxicology, uh, report revealed alcohol, cocaine, prescription antidepressants, and five individuals have been charged with connection in his death. Um, the whole hotel manager, the receptionist, a friend, um, and then someone who gave him drugs.

Cathy: Um, it’s about manslaughter and abandonment charges. So I don’t know where that is. That was kind of like the story I found in an article that was written like six months ago. Yeah. So maybe all those charges have been dropped. But that’s where we are.

Todd: So we’re on one direction, 2010 to [00:45:00] 2015. They kind of dominated, obviously Te Taylor was dominating her in her way as well.

Todd: Mm-hmm. And then kind of the last kind of piece that I have is K-pop. Right. And I don’t know, I didn’t know anything about K-Pop, so I just kind of like, did a quick search cake pop stands for Korean pop. Correct. Didn’t know that. Really? No.

Cathy: How did you not know that?

Todd: Because I’m an idiot.

Cathy: Well, and I don’t mean, I, I hate it when people say, how’d you not know that?

Cathy: What I mean is all the bands are Korean.

Todd: Yeah. Well, I don’t, I I don’t watch those bands.

Cathy: Okay. Okay.

Todd: Um, it’s a music genre and cultural movement that orig originated in South Korea, combining catchy pop melodies with highly produced visuals, synchronized choreography, and multi-language lyrics. Correct. So do they sing in Korean or English or both?

Todd: Both. That’s the whole point. Multi-language. Um, and the artists are called idols rather than just singers. Big time. What’s, what does that mean?

Cathy: You know, our girl from uh, uh, Lisa from Black Pink is on White Lotus. She’s from K-Pop

Todd: Lisa from Black Pink.

Cathy: So she is in the white [00:46:00] Lotus. She played, I can’t remember her name.

Cathy: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Remember?

Todd: Oh yeah.

Cathy: She’s a K-pop star.

Todd: So she’s a K-pop star. Mm-hmm. Um, the extensive training periods two to 10 years before they debut, like I, I guess it’s like a job that you, like, they pick you out and they get you ready. Like in Olympics, companies control almost every aspect of the career in image, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Todd: So then BTS is the big one, right? Correct.

Cathy: They are, they’re had the biggest, uh, worldwide success. How many people are at BTS? Any idea? Dude, like I said, this is not my thing. That’s fine. The only reason that I have, like my only, and this is we’re we’ve so ventured in to remember when Yeah. But what I’ll say is that I used to, I teach at a university called Dominican University, and for a while I was teaching also at Elmhurst University.

Cathy: I was teaching at ’em both at the same time. Why? I just wanted to work too hard. Yeah. But a lot of my students, I remember a semester, they always have to do a final paper and they have to talk about something that’s sociological, that affects our lives. And two of my students did K-pop, um, presentations, and they had to [00:47:00] really convince me to why this was interesting.

Cathy: Important. Okay. And they did. Um, and that was like, that was a decade ago. Yeah. So I was kinda like, what are you talking about? Yeah. So that my introduction to them was more as a professor than it was a,

Todd: so we are officially outta the first category.

Cathy: Let’s go

Todd: remember when.

Clip: Remember when?

Todd: I remember. Do you wanna start or do you want me to start? Because my, my list is pretty short. Go ahead. I remember going to the Backstreet Boys concert with you. I think the first one was, uh, at, um, that awesome venue. Northerly Island. Northerly Island. Mm-hmm. And was it just them? It was just them, yes. And Paul got us tickets to be able to do Backstreet at v the, the VIP treatment.

Todd: Mm-hmm. And then you kind of saw Brian and you’re like, oh my God, there’s Brian. Yeah. And then I’ve seen him five or six times since then. Almost always in Vegas. Is that right? With, since then

Cathy: with you? Only in Vegas. Got it. I, I went [00:48:00] a few more times, but, and

Todd: we went to the sphere, uh, just a few months ago.

Cathy: Mm-hmm.

Todd: Where did we see them before in Vegas?

Cathy: Uh, we saw them at, um, the one that Britney Spears was at too. Uh, uh Does it matter? No. I, I want the palms. No, no. God dang it. I can see the sign. It’s like the one where the young people go. The, the young casino. Um,

Todd: we’ll figure it out.

Cathy: Okay. I’ll look it up. ’cause I can see the

Todd: second.

Todd: So that’s my remember one, sweetie. You go ahead.

Cathy: That’s all you got. That’s all I got. That’s all you got. Okay. So I’m not gonna like be long-winded about it, but I would say my, like, I already told my N-K-O-T-B story. You know, like, okay, wait, let me go way back. I didn’t really have, I, I was not super into the Osmonds.

Cathy: I loved the monkeys though. So the monkeys were kind of my favorite thing when I was young. I was a big, and, and they was for everybody. I was a big Davey Jones fan. I loved Mickey, I loved them as a TV [00:49:00] show. Like that was, I didn’t understand till I got older that they were also musicians in their own right.

Cathy: I always just thought about them as a TV show. Todd and I have talked about this before on this show. Um, but, so that was kind of my, you know, my first, um, and then. I already told my N-K-O-T-B uh, college story that I thought I was too old. I just think that’s funny. It’s kinda like for anybody listening who’s young.

Cathy: Um, I remember thinking I was too old at 18 to like N-K-O-T-B, and I remember thinking at 27 I was too young to go to grad or too old to go to graduate school. Yeah. So sometimes we really limit ourselves about stories that aren’t true. Yeah. Um, and I’m so glad I did go to graduate school, but I kept thinking, oh, I’m so old.

Cathy: I’m in my mid twenties. Yeah. And it’s like, oh my God, dude. Yeah. Like, that’s when you do it. So. I’m just putting that out there. Um, okay. I will say that, you know, I’ve been to, uh, backs. Streete Boys have been my favorite since, what was that year? We got together [00:50:00] 26, 27 years old, 25. I don’t know. I was, they were already, I was already a fan when you and I got together.

Cathy: Sure. Okay. So I’ll talk more about them later. Um, and then the, uh, Justin Timberlake, uh, when I was pregnant with Skyler, um, ’cause I was kind of an NSYNC fan, but when I was pregnant with Skyler, I went to the Oprah show and Justin Timberlake was on and he grabbed my hand as he was coming down the aisle.

Cathy: ’cause I had a big baby in my stomach. Mm-hmm. So I did get to have a moment with Justin Timberlake and Skyler saw, uh, heard a lot of his music while she was in utero because I went to his concert when I was like six weeks pregnant or eight weeks pregnant. That was when, um, future Sex love sounds was so big.

Cathy: That’s a little more like. Justin Timberlake then in sync, but he did have quite a run there in the 2006, 2007 time

Clip: getting my cookie on hashtag I’m the real cookie monster. Hashtag No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Delicious. Right. Hashtag I did it all for the cookie. Hashtag [00:51:00] L-O-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L.

Clip: Hashtag classic. By the way, did you catch last week’s episode of Duck Dynasty hashtag Quack Rack? Nah, lately I’ve mostly been watching Netflix. Hashtag Orange is the new Black. Oh, nice. I’ve been watching a lot of Barney. The Dinosaur hashtag Purple is the new black hashtag. I love you. You love me. We’re a happy family.

Clip: Hashtag. I’m 38.

Cathy: I’m 38.

Todd: It’s

Clip: hard for

Todd: me to stop.

Cathy: I know it’s Jimmy Fallon, Justin Timberlake, when they had, they’re very good friends obviously, and they were really funny and that was when Justin Timberlake was so big on Saturday Night Live and et cetera.

Todd: That’s the one thing I don’t think our kids, sorry to interrupt.

Todd: No. Have any idea the impact that Justin Timberlake had? Correct. On our pop culture society? I know like he was, he could sing dance act. He was funny on SNL and um, I’ve, I’ve always loved him and, uh, our kids have no clue or just have a disregard for him.

Cathy: Well, he’s having a rough time right now. Um, I think there’s a lot of reasons.

Cathy: I think the, you know, he was trying to kind of restart his career and that wasn’t working out. There’s a lot of rumors that he had been [00:52:00] cheating on his wife, um, who everybody loves, you know? So that’s no bueno. He’s married

Todd: to Jessica

Cathy: Beal. Yeah, Jessica Beal. And then he also. Got a DUI supposedly, but I think he’s fighting that then he’s been doing these concerts, um, where he hasn’t been very energetic.

Cathy: Mm-hmm. Let’s just say like there’s this video that’s gone viral Oh oh. Of where he’s like singing and he sets the microphone down on the ground and just has everybody else sing. And everyone’s like, oh my God, why are you doing this? But he then came out, uh, and said that he has Lyme disease. Oh. And so he’s really struggling with joint pain, et cetera.

Cathy: So he’s just had a little more of a rough road. People get through these things, I’m sure. Gee, he’s so talented. Yeah, he’s gonna be fine. But it’s just right now, girl, people are are, are girls age. They’re not really impressed with him. Yeah. So the last thing I’m gonna do under Remember When, and it is about Backstreet Boys, um, because it is a funny story, is that.

Cathy: Um, there used to be something on TV called, it was a TV channel and it was called Video Jukebox Network.

Clip: Yes.

Cathy: [00:53:00] And I think I might’ve been the only person who ever watched it. Yes. Um, because I, what you would do is you would call a phone number and then you’d plug in, you’d go beep, beep, beep, beep, and you would plug in a number of a video you wanted to see.

Cathy: Or maybe I left a message. What did I do? I think you just called a number and then put in a, uh, put it, I don’t know. I would call a 900 number. So why I am saying it’s a 900 number is I had to pay for it. Yeah. Like it came on my bill. Yeah. My phone bill. And then I would say, oh, play this video. Mm-hmm. And then it would, it would, the reason I think I’m the only one who watched it is mine would come up immediately.

Cathy: Yes. So I would put it in, and the two that I did the most were, um, Backstreet Boys, as long as you love me, which is, I loved, that’s when I started really falling in love with ’em. So it wasn’t quit playing games with my heart. It was as long as you love me. Um.[00:54:00]

Cathy: So I just wanted to hear this song all the time. Okay. So why not just buy it and listen to it instead of watch the video? I don’t know. And then the other song I always would get was, uh, push By Matchbox 20. So that was, and so that was when Todd and I started dating and it was just one of those quirks that he thought was really interesting and didn’t make any sense to him.

Cathy: He’s like, why are you paying for this?

Todd: Yeah. I’m like, ’cause on a Friday night when you could be drinking with your friends,

Cathy: well, I wasn’t doing it. Friday night is all seeing the wall.

Todd: You’re miss, you’re miss uh. Sweet. You were writing papers. Playing, buying videos on Friday nights. Yeah.

Cathy: You’re like putting a bunch of things together that aren’t true.

Cathy: Yes. I wrote my papers on Friday nights, but I wouldn’t like not be with my friends to write my paper. I’d have a plan with my friends on Saturday, write my paper on Friday, and I would do those videos when I came home from work. Mm-hmm. I’d be like, I wanna like have something that I enjoy. Mm-hmm.

Cathy: So you, you don’t, you gotta bring back your stay on [00:55:00] target. I,

Todd: it’s, it’s not gone anywhere. Sweet. Okay.

Cathy: Stay on target. Okay, good. Because that one makes me laugh. Okay. So just a few other, remember wins. Um, bringing it back to, I was, I was working at Children’s Memorial Hospital. It’s now called Lurry Children’s Hospital.

Cathy: But a few of the women that I worked with, um, were a few years younger than me, and I remember telling them I was like 25, 26 that I really liked back, uh, Backstreet Boys and I think they were like 22, 23. They’re like, oh my God, that’s so cool that you at this age really liked that band. Like, I felt old then.

Cathy: Mm. Um, but then we talked about it all the time, so it was kind of like a thing. Kelly and Shannon, my, my buddies. There you go. So that was the beginning of it. And then this is my, there’s one more. I remember when one more. So this is more of a somber one. So that song that you just played was off of their first album.

Cathy: They had another album come out, um, called Millennium, which is probably their most popular because it was the one that rivaled in Syns, uh, without, or strings not [00:56:00] attached or whatever. They both came out around the same time. No strings attached. I thinks that’s it. Thank you. And, um, that album came out when my dad was in the hospital.

Cathy: Mm-hmm. Okay. So I, my life was driving to Rockford, Illinois, uh, back and forth like how many times a week? Three or four times a week? Sure. Because my dad was in intensive care for three months. So that album, that disc was in my car all the time. Like, I listened to it all the time. So there, it kind of was helpful to me.

Cathy: Like it wasn’t a thing, like I listened to it, now I’m sad. Not at all. It lifted me up. I would leave that hospital. Pretty heavy. Get in the car. Listen to Backstreet Boys. Thank you. So there’s a lot of like reason, um, to why they’re important to me. Of course. Do you see what I mean? I do. So that’s why there’s always stories and um, and then, you know, on and on and on, which Todd, and I’ll tell more stories later, but I just wanted to share that.

Todd: Are we ready for random facts?

Cathy: Let’s do it.[00:57:00]

Todd: Oh, you like it when I pray twice. That’s it. Um, I don’t have many, but I got a little bit here. Okay, go ahead. One is, uh, and I don’t know if this is true, but it says, boy band members were contractually forbidden from having public girlfriends to maintain their availability. Is that true? Well,

Cathy: now I don’t know about the contractual, I have nothing to say, but that was definitely a thing.

Cathy: Not only were they told to not talk about their significant others, that was big. A lot of the times, especially around the Jonas Brothers era, they were told to say they were virgins. Mm-hmm.

Todd: Yeah, that was a big deal. So it was Britney Spears. Yeah. I think, I think the, uh, Jonas Brothers had some purity began with a religious component, didn’t they?

Todd: Correct. Yes, it did. Yeah.

Cathy: And so there was a lot of, um, you know, there was just a lot of like, these, these boys are good boys. Yeah. You know, there was a lot of that. Yeah. They’re

Todd: trying

Cathy: to sell that. Um, but like Justin Timberlake and Britney Spears were together. Right. And that was really hyped up. So, [00:58:00]

Todd: um, the other only other random facts, and I didn’t know this until I watched this documentary yesterday, but the, the fact that I’ve gotten through 57 minutes of this podcast and still haven’t played, I want it that way.

Todd: I’m proud of myself ’cause it’s literally one of my favorite songs of all time. That’s my karaoke go-to song. Sure. Is. No, I’m not a good singer. I don’t care. I just like that song and people like singing along to it. Um, but the, the words don’t make sense. Do you wanna talk about that or do you want me to talk about that?

Cathy: Well, we were actually talking about it. So there’s, are you gonna talk about Max Martin?

Todd: Um,

Cathy: no, I’m not. Okay. Well, he wrote that the lyrics don’t, don’t make sense. Okay. But he wrote it. So you, you don’t wanna talk about the guy who wrote it. You just wanna talk about, I don’t really care about that. Okay. Go ahead and talk about the lyrics and then I’ll talk about Nick Martin.

Cathy: I want that

Todd: way is univers universally beloved.

Cathy: Mm-hmm.

Todd: So it says, tell me why. Ain’t nothing but a heartache. Uhhuh, tell me why. Ain’t nothing but a mistake. Tell me why. I never want to hear you say. Mm-hmm. I want it that way. Here’s the [00:59:00] problem. The singer says he doesn’t want hear, it doesn’t want to hear.

Todd: I want it that way. But the title and the, the chorus or whatever it is, says I want it that way. Mm-hmm. So you say, he’s saying, I never want to hear you say, but the whole chorus about how I want it. That, and then why would you want, and the meaning of the song. To not want something. So it just doesn’t make any sense.

Todd: True. So that, to your point, max Martin and Andreas Carlson, first of all, max Martin, how much money does that guy have? Because he seems like he’s written every popular song I’ve ever heard of.

Cathy: Correct. So that’s what I was gonna say. Is anybody here who’s a Taylor Swift fan who knows that she just announced her new album called The Last Showgirl.

Cathy: She, um, most of her biggest pop hits, I’m not talking folklore and evermore, I’m talking pop hits like on 1989 and everything were co-written like she helped but with Max Martin and Shellback. So Max Martin wrote all the Backstreet Boys [01:00:00] music, or the majority of it he used to. He’s written and obviously has worked a lot with Taylor Swift.

Cathy: So there is a, he is the epitome of the pop music sound, which is, he understands. How to put choruses together and how to make something like, I want it that way. Stick in your mind. There is a whole philosophy to how to write a good pop song. Oh, he also wrote Britney Spears music. So I mean, you could do a list of everybody that he’s written for, right?

Cathy: It’s not just them, but he is the one that they admire the most.

Todd: Well, and I just wanna hear this guy’s voice. Where is his voice? I think he’s Swedish. Yeah, I think he’s Swedish, but for some reason Oh, and I can’t get his voice to pop up. Okay. So I don’t know. So anyways, and then they put out a version of it where it lyrically made sense.

Todd: Okay. And it does it. Who’s they? Uh, there’s like. They tried it. Okay. The Backstreet Boys tried it. Okay. And they’re like, no, we gotta go back to the one that doesn’t make any sense. ’cause I think like instead of saying, I never want to hear you say, I think they said, I always want to hear [01:01:00] you say Okay. And they’re like, don’t do that one.

Todd: Got it. ’cause it’s no good.

Cathy: Because it doesn’t fit the rhythm. Like there is something, and again, I am not a songwriter, but as a writer, writer, you know like ’cause I write, yeah. There’s something about rhythm with words. Yes. And language and sentences that I know when I’ve written a good sentence. ’cause it has a certain rhythm and sound where you finish it.

Cathy: That writers are always like, oh my God, that was such a great sentence. And we can get really precious about it. ’cause sometimes you have to cut it and you’re like, oh no, it’s such a great sentence. It’s the same way with lyrics. Obviously it’s got a rhythm ’cause it’s music, but there’s something about that works well with that sound and I’m gonna come back with that.

Cathy: And I want it that way is one of the perfect examples of how that sound. How those, the rhythm of those lyrics work. Perfect.

Todd: So just a few things. Max Martin’s top hits by artist, Backstreet Boys. There’s five of them, including, I want it that way. In sync. It’s gonna be me. Bye. Bye bye. Tearing up my heart.

Todd: Britney Spears baby. One more time. Oops. I did it again. Stronger. If you see Kenny Katy Perry, I kissed a girl, teenage Dream [01:02:00] California Girls, Taylor Swift. We were never getting back together. Shake it off. Blank Space, bad Blood. The Weekend, blinding Lights. Can’t feel my face. Ariana, grand Grande, Grande Pink, Kelly Clarkson, Justin Timberlake.

Todd: Um, it’s just Bon Jovi. Geez Louise. This guy. I just can’t believe that.

Cathy: I know some people are very talented and

Todd: people are just like, Hey, write, they say write me a song. Like does he co-write with them or do you know?

Cathy: And produces,

Todd: okay.

Cathy: So it’s a whole production thing. All right,

Todd: you know. Anyways, that’s Max Mark.

Cathy: So anyway, um, yes. That. So I don’t really care that those lyrics don’t make sense.

Todd: Neither do I, because it’s just a damn good song. Do you have any random facts?

Cathy: Um, a few, but I don’t, I’ll do a few. I’ll, I’m gonna talk about Backstreet Boys for a second. Um, for those of you who are fans, you may know that, uh, the lead singer or one of their lead singers, it’s usually Nick or Brian.

Cathy: Brian Latrell. Um, he has something called vocal tension dystonia. And so for the [01:03:00] last, I don’t know, decade he’s been dealing with this issue with his vocal chords. So if you go to one of their shows, you will notice that he does not sound the same and that he’s straining when he’s singing. And this is very, he talks about it openly.

Cathy: This is in a secret. Um, and it’s really been a challenge for the Backstreet Boys because he is the lead singer on the majority of their songs. So they’ve really had to figure that out. And he has had to do a whole, he does constant therapy for his voice and everything because it’s become also neurological for him.

Cathy: Like there’s a, you know, he has dystonia, but he also has. Oh yeah, you can play that. Go ahead.

Clip: That’s a good question. Um, the status is, it’s an ongoing issue. Um, I’ve been dealing with it ever since. So this is 10 years ago. Yeah. Uh, probably midway through the Backstreet Boys, new kids on the block tour. So I’m gonna go back like maybe, what, four years?

Clip: Four? Yeah. Three, three and a half, four years. Um, that’s when the symptoms kind of came up. It’s called vocal [01:04:00] tension dysphonia, where the muscles around, oh, Dyson. Vocal cords kind of strangle me in a way. Mm-hmm. Um, blocks the airflow. It doesn’t just like that, it doesn’t allow your vocal cords to work properly like they should.

Clip: Um, there’s also another additional thing on top of that. It’s called dystonia, which is a neurological, uh, signal that your brain sends to your voice to work well, that’s what I was gonna ask. Is it kind of a, a, a stress induced kind of thing? It’s. All

Cathy: that.

Clip: Yeah. It

Cathy: feels so bad for him. It’s a, it’s all those things.

Cathy: And he’s also got congenital heart disorder. Jesus, like a defect in his heart. He has a heart murmur, he has a lot of things. And you know that Backstreet Boys, uh, new kids on the Block. Um, that tour, I saw that my friend Jess and I went, we were way up front and it was not good. Oh boy. That was the one where So ’cause of Brian or just in general?

Cathy: No, it wasn’t just Brian. I don’t even think it was that bad yet. But they were not, they had just kind of gotten back together [01:05:00] and they were not, they’re working out the kinks great shape, let’s just say that. They weren’t, like, the choreography was not tight. Like I made her go with me. I, I feel like every time we’re gonna talk about me going to a Backstreet Boy show, it’s me making someone go with me.

Cathy: And, but she and I had amazing, you know, we were standing right next to the stage and we were like, whoa, this is not good. Like, the songs are good, but they’re not dancing well, neither. I mean, I, I have to say

Todd: it’s like preseason baseball. They’re just, uh, they’re just getting back into

Cathy: it. It was rough. And so.

Cathy: That being said, I didn’t see them for a while after that ’cause it was such a bummer. And then when I found out they were gonna be in Vegas and have a residency, I said, Todd, I really need to go and like heal this hole in my heart. And oh my God, they were so good. We’ve been healing and it was a while now was tight and it was so good.

Cathy: I was like, oh my God, they’re back.

Todd: It’s a lot of healing

Cathy: backstreet’s back. Um, so anyway, there’s that. And so, uh, also just a little more Backstreet Boys, AJ McClain, he was in rehab. He, he, uh, struggled with addiction and the [01:06:00] boys had to do a whole intervention for him and it was a really big deal. Um, and that almost broke the band up.

Cathy: Kevin Richardson, another member of the band, he left in 2006. Um, so he wasn’t with them for a while. He wanted to focus on his family, et cetera. He came back in 2012. Um, I got a little of AJ talking to Oprah. Okay. Yeah. That was big

Clip: approach about it. Um, Kevin approached me a couple times about it and said, you know, he kind of approached me and kind of asked me, he’s like, dude, are you doing.

Clip: Other things besides, you know, alcohol. And I, I actually came to him in a hotel room in New York one time and I said, Hey, do you wanna do some, you know, blow with me? Do you wanna do some coke with me? And he’s like, no, I don’t do that. And then that was the first time I think you really knew that you were, that I was, well, I guess so.

Clip: Yeah. I mean, you know. Yeah. I, I kept it a secret for a pretty good amount of time. The boys wanted to be here today to tell you how proud of you they are. So, coming out, I saw

Cathy: this

Clip: live, [01:07:00]

Cathy: so they, they, he didn’t know they were gonna be there.

Todd: It’s pretty

Cathy: cool, let me tell you. So a lot of, and he has all, he was sweating and then he was crying and a bunch of his makeup started running off, like he had drawn on his eyebrows and stuff.

Cathy: And he

Todd: even said that, he’s like, he did my beard’s gonna, my beard’s running or something like that. I

Cathy: remember it so well. It was so sweet.

Todd: Yeah. Um, I wanna just fast forward to this little part of the interview where he is just kind of loving on him.

Clip: The only thing you didn’t wear your suit, man. We got all dressed. Got all dressed. Came in from London. Nick. Nick did. Nick, thank you. That’s what’s all about. Now my beard’s gonna run. Thanks. It saying that it was because of you and the rest of the guys. Well, uh, this is Kevin. It got to a point where, uh, we couldn’t stand the person he was becoming.

Clip: Mm-hmm. He wasn’t the same person. [01:08:00] He wasn’t Alex, he was some whatever age a the rock star. And he wasn’t the guy we knew and, and grew with. And I didn’t wanna be around him anymore. I couldn’t stand him. And, uh, it, it had reached a point where he was totally unreliable. Mm Gosh. He’s laying it out. He was lying.

Clip: He. It was just not. A good human being, not showing up for rehearsal, not showing up. How about that? Just

Todd: truth. Jesus. Kevin.

Cathy: Kevin is like, and again, this I, the guys don’t say this, but everything I watch and see, they, he’s like their dad.

Todd: He’s like the moral company

Cathy: He is. And he like had a family first, and he was married first.

Cathy: They’re all married with children now. So they’re all in that world. And, um, and AJ by the way right now is awesome. Mm-hmm. Like he’s my, I’ve always, I’ve had different Backstreet boys along the way, but he’s, for the last five years, I’ve just loved watching aj.

Todd: Well, I mean, I just think, uh, you know, somebody who has gone [01:09:00] through the challenge of being addicted to cocaine or alcohol or whatever, and then come up clean on the other side up, I’m always inspired by anybody that has that story.

Cathy: He’s like such a, he’s like, he’s, he’s got more of the. He’s, oh, how do I wanna say this? He’s more of a rock star in a way. Like he’s very, he does a lot of makeup. He does. He’s different than the other guys.

Todd: Yeah. He’s got the cowboy hat going.

Cathy: And he also, he, um, has a nail polish company that he runs and he always wears different colored nail polish.

Cathy: And I believe he, his child is either gender fluid or trans, and he’s very open and talks about that and very supportive and a wonderful dad. And he’s just like, I, I just really like him. He and I was telling Todd that he and Lance, um, bass are really good friends. Oh, nice. From in sync. And so he’s on his podcast.

Cathy: Lance has a podcast and so they are really big buddies. Um, so I just really enjoy him. And anyway, um, so just, there’s other things, but I think we should move on. Um.

Todd: Do you have any WTF moments?

Cathy: I think, I think we kind of already talked about him, which is Lou Pearlman. Yeah, he’s my [01:10:00] WTF now. He put the bands together, so yay.

Clip: Yeah.

Cathy: Um, he did so Yay. So yay. He did Backstreet Boys, NSYNC O Town and LFO. Mm-hmm. So, you know, he’s built a lot of boy bands and kind of brought it back into our world. But he also, you know. He went to prison.

Clip: Yeah.

Cathy: Um, he died in 2016. And, let’s see, color me bad, we didn’t even really talk about them. So I’m now I’m gonna go in the WTF and then Justin Timberlake.

Cathy: Um, a few things about him, ’cause he was in nsync. Um, after breaking up with Britney Spears, he wrote, you know, crime Me a River, saying that he didn’t write it himself, but other somebody else did. But he did the video saying that she cheated on him, which created years of, of slut shaming against her. And Britney Spears wrote a biography a couple years ago that I read, and he actually was cheating on her, and she just got thrown under the bus.

Cathy: She told him, I kissed one of your dancers, or he kissed me or something. There’s a little bit of a story, but she slept with nobody and the whole time he [01:11:00] was, you know, and then he used her to like promote his own career, like throw her under the bus. It was not great.

Todd: Would it be bad timing right now to play a little bit of the Barry Gibb talk show?

Cathy: Yes. ’cause that’s, that’s good stuff. That’s not the I energy, that’s not the, okay. Also the Janet Jackson Nipple Gate thing. Mm-hmm. Like he,

Todd: it is a wardrobe malfunction.

Cathy: Well, Todd and I, we had little girls when we were watching that. No, no. Maddie. We’re with Maddie. Maddie, that was it. 2004. You’re right. And I think I covered her eyes.

Cathy: Do you remember? Like, I was like, oh my God. Yeah. Like JC was born obviously, maybe even Cameron.

Clip: I don’t, she was born in Tucson. Yeah.

Cathy: Anyway, um, but she, that Justin Timberlake, at the end of that, he ripped off her costume. It was, it was planned. And then it, you know, it showed her breast and then afterwards he was like, I had no idea.

Cathy: I had no idea. And Janet Jackson totally got thrown under the bus. He did not. Um, and then anyway, so just, he’s been struggling lately. Um, I think that is, there’s other things, but [01:12:00] again, there are, these are not the things we need to talk about. Let’s go to Zen Parenting.

Todd: We’ve been rolling in the deep, this whole show.

Cathy: Oh, I’m gonna be brief on this. That’s okay. ’cause I would rather talk about our favorite songs Yes. And stuff like that. That’s, that’s more fun to me. Um, but I will say a few things about boy bands and emotional depth. Mm-hmm. Which we’ve kind of already discussed. Um, you know, you were saying why are they so popular?

Cathy: They sing openly about love, heartbreak, vulnerability, things that men, it would be nice if, you know, men were more vulnerable or felt that they could be in our society. It’s part of the reason boy bands get thrown under the bus because they’re not staying in that man box. Mm-hmm. That is so closely guarded.

Cathy: Um, and, you know, it’s just basically emo emotional declarations all over the place. Um, so. They were, in some ways, this is the performative masculinity box that I wanna talk about, is for as much as they were being vulnerable, it was also still somewhat safe and not threatening. You know what I [01:13:00] mean? Like, they were, um, everything was synchronized, everything was palatable, everything was, you know, again, as we talked about there, they were told to not have packaged, everything was packaged.

Cathy: Is packaged. Yeah. It’s like, this is, so for hair bands that we talked about last week, their packaging was more like, we’re rebels and we’re like out there, you know, we’re, we’re partying. But really it was very performative. Yeah. And it wasn’t, um, it wasn’t real. Yeah. A lot of it. And same with boy bands, that they weren’t really allowed to have lives.

Cathy: And some of this we now have an understanding of because they’ve written books and they’ve, we’ve done, they’ve done documentaries and we know they, some of them struggled with addiction and all that kind of thing. So it was a more sanitized version of masculinity. Sensitive so girls could adore them, but straight enough.

Cathy: It was very straight. So it could call him parents because as you were talking about yesterday, you said to me, um, Lance Bass, who is in, in sync, he, he was, he’s gay [01:14:00] and he was very aware of that when he joined the band and they told him to tone down his femininity.

Todd: I got a clip.

Cathy: Okay, go ahead.

Todd: Like family.

Todd: This

Clip: is aj, but Lance is coming up.

Cathy: Okay. I like

Clip: family. I think of everyone in the group that changed the most. It would be me. That’s Lance. I was the one that was hiding a huge part of myself. I wasn’t the person that I was supposed to be. I became the shy one because I didn’t want people to figure out the secret I had because I didn’t want people to see that I had a personality that, ooh, he might be gay.

Clip: Do you like girls who wear makeup or do you have a limit on how much makeup you like a girl to wear? Well, I mean, I don’t like too much makeup. But I mean, he doesn’t care. White girls that like to keep themselves up, keep themselves up. I looked back at my interviews 20 years ago. I’m like, who is that kid?

Clip: Yeah. Like that is not me. It’s just I didn’t know who I was, but I remember towards the end that I could speak my [01:15:00] voice. I became more confident and everyone in the group. Always supported whatever I did, which is amazing. Looking at it now,

Cathy: that’s

Todd: all you

Cathy: want buddies. Yeah. Those are his best friends.

Clip: That’s your back.

Cathy: That is one thing that, you know, for as much as I’m using the word performative, these friendships in these bands were real. Yeah. Like they still consider each other family and they fought like family members too. Yeah. Like you watch their documentaries and you see, but they are very, very close.

Cathy: So, you know, so basically, you know, the bottom line is that any deviation of sexuality, addiction, mental health struggles that was not permitted to be talked about. Yeah. Um, so, which is very typical. Um, so one thing that I wanted to talk about though under this was that was kind of I think interesting and funny is, um, I don’t know if it belongs here, but I don’t care obviously, because we were making fun of them a lot and they were kind of the, um, our poster child for vulnerability but packaged I really loved on [01:16:00] Saturday Night Live when.

Cathy: The Lonely Island, which are three guys. Mm-hmm. Now they are not a band, they’re not a boy band, they’re a comedic act, but sometimes they would do boy band kind of stuff. Mm-hmm. So that is like Andy Sandberg and JMA Koan. Um, I think it’s Akiva Schafer. Um, and they are, they are Lonely Island, right? Yeah. And they used to do all those videos.

Cathy: And then I remember, I think it was mid two thousands or maybe later, they did a whole thing on, um, they did a song called I Just Had Sex. Or I Just Had Sex. Yeah, I think that’s right. And they, they had acon who is like, ACON is like a rapper who was like in everybody’s songs. Like he was in, uh, like David Guta songs.

Cathy: He was in Gwen Stefani’s songs. He was in T-Pain songs. And so it was so funny to add ACON to this, uh. Like this, this song

Clip: The best. Great. And I Come on. What’s behind you? [01:17:00]

Todd: Why is there like someone talking behind, behind it? Oh, sorry. That’s my bad. I don’t know why it’s happening. Why is that happening? Oh, I know.

Todd: Let’s try this again.

Cathy: Okay.

Clip: I,

Cathy: I just remember when this came, I, it was like they were mixing all these things together. They were, it was really funny to me, you know, as someone who loved all of these things and it was perfect and interesting, you know, like cameos, like Blake Lively’s in that video that I just had, sex video, um, Jessica Albas in it.

Cathy: Really great. Um, so anyway, and then on that note, the, you know, the, this is, we, Todd played this already, but this is the end Backstreet Boys. Were at the very end of that movie, I think they’re referred to throughout the movie. But here’s a group of guys who, you know, this whole Seth Rogan group, you know, James Franco and um, Jonah Hill and [01:18:00] everybody, you think of them as like very, that.

Cathy: They’re kind. I mean, they’re not like masculine guys, but they’re like weed smoking guys who only do boy culture. Right. And they talk about Backstreet Boys through the whole movie. Like there’s something I like about that too. Can I play the uh, Brooklyn nine nine thing? Oh yeah.

Clip: That’s good

Cathy: too.

Clip: Do you recognize

Todd: any of these men?

Clip: I was hiding in the bathroom stall, so I didn’t see his face, but I heard him. He was singing along to the music at the bar. Do you remember what he was singing? I think it was that song. I want it that way. Backstreet Boys. I’m familiar. Okay. Number one, could you please sing the opening to, I want it that way.

Clip: Really? Okay. You are my number two. Keep it going. The one desire. Number three, believe when I say number four, that away. Tell me why.[01:19:00]

Clip: Now number five. Never wanna hear. See, I want,

Todd: that’s a cold open, right?

Clip: Chills.

Cathy: Literally. Uh, two. Brooklyn. Nine. Nine. Yeah.

Clip: Number five Killed my brother.

Cathy: Oh my God. I forgot about that part.

Todd: That’s so good. That’s it.

Cathy: Cameron loves that. So show, so she always says now number five. She always does sing that part.

Cathy: Um, so, and then something you were watching when I walked in today is the fact that at the Saturday Night Live 50th mm-hmm. Who’d they have sing Todd? They had the BS Bs, correct? That’s right. So I just, I don’t even know if that goes in this category. I just felt the need to talk about these ways, these cultural significant ways that, you know, they keep bringing them back and they don’t bring back all of the boy bands they bring back.[01:20:00]

Cathy: The Backstreet Boys, so let’s move on to parental guidance for a sec.

Todd: Why don’t you go, I got something, but I need to queue it up.

Cathy: Okay. So this whole wave of boy bands, it was basically the teenagers, young adults. So it was us. And a lot of us are parents now. Um, uh, you know, again, probably more millennials, but Gen Xers kind of tail end of that as well. And so what came out of it, um, with, you know, being in boy band culture, you know, there was a little more emotional permissiveness.

Cathy: Uh, you know, we had more permission to talk about feelings because of, you know, it was, it modeled softness a little bit with men and so we could talk about it. Um, there was also the, we, as we’ve discussed the manufactured part, the cultural cynicism of music about this is manufactured, this is created, this isn’t real.

Cathy: We did a whole show a couple weeks ago about Milli Vanilli when that whole kind of distrust of music, I don’t know if it’s when it started, but when it, it’s when it got really heightened. And that was true too, of [01:21:00] saying. What’s the difference between a real musician and a culturally manufactured band?

Cathy: And there is a difference, of course. Duh. We all know, like, I don’t consider, I don’t look at Backstreet Boys and go, wow, they’re the best musicians. What they are are entertainers. And they were able to have people who wrote songs for them who, um, you know, they then came together and made it fun to watch, you know, so different than, but even though they are musicians now.

Cathy: But anyway, um, and then.

Todd: Kevin played the piano sweetie.

Cathy: He sure did. And Nick can play the drums sometimes, and Brian plays the guitar sometimes, but that’s not what their band is. Right. You

Todd: know

Cathy: what I

Todd: mean? Yeah. They sing and dance.

Cathy: Like, actually it’s funny, Brian Lorell’s son was on American Idol this year, so, you know, did he get

Todd: the golden ticket?

Todd: He,

Cathy: I think he did, but I don’t think anything came after that. Yeah. Um, so, and then the gender scripts, you know, gen X parents, we, we, you know, saw the difference that girls are allowed to scream and cry at concerts and boys are not, right? Yep. Um, they, they, you know, they could sing about their feelings, but, um, in real life, boys [01:22:00] were kind of mocked for liking any of this kind of, right.

Cathy: It was too soft. Um, and then also the last thing in parental guidance would be like, um, ex exploitation, because all these stories we’re telling about the challenges all these bands had and how they had to hide themselves. Um, this was kind of the exploitation era, not just the boy bands, but the Nickelodeon documentary about kids who were being treated poorly, you know, child stars, all that kind of thing.

Cathy: Um. Uh, made, you know, US Gen X more attuned to how the industry can exploit kids.

Todd: Well, and one thing that we have not yet mentioned, and this goes into the pre-history that we started with the Beatles and the Monkeys, is the Jackson Five and the, the Osmonds.

Cathy: Yeah. We talked about them at the beginning a little bit.

Todd: Okay. Well this is a piece about, um, Donnie Osmond is, is in here for a second, just talking about, um, you know, their fathers. Yeah. So a little bit of that. Yeah, let’s hear

Clip: that. I think it’s just the nature of the beast man. However, the [01:23:00] Jacksons, the Osmonds, the talent was in the house. Then you have your managing also in the same house.

Clip: The work ethic my father instilled in all of us, this is Donny, was second to none. I remember as a tiny little kid. Oh, Donny Osmond, my brothers in front of that piano playing and learning the parts and harmonizing to where it was. Perfect. My dad was an army sergeant, and so that kind of infiltrated in how he raised us.

Clip: I never wanted to disappoint my father when we hit, big Father said back in the rehearsal hall, learn a new number, keep this engine going. I think having a very strong father figure was very important for our success. However, it can go a little overboard.

Cathy: You think?

Clip: I spent a lot of time with Michael Jackson.

Clip: I mean, you look at the [01:24:00] Osmonds and the Jackson five, the comparisons of the two family are just uncanny. There’s nine children in each family. Mike and I are both the seventh child of nine. Wow. Our mother’s birthdays are on the same day. Michael and I are the same age. You and I are in the same boat.

Clip: Really? You know, because we both sing with a group made up our own brothers.

Todd: So I could, let’s just keep going. Yeah, that’s good. But um, we don’t have to. Talk much about the Jackson Five’s father, but he was mm-hmm. I don’t even know what the word is. Tough to say. The lead

Cathy: real sergeant kind of guy. And not very, A lot of, uh, emotional abuse.

Cathy: Yeah. Physical abuse. I think we’ve heard too. Yeah. Um, from the books. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I know some people laugh about the comparison of the Osmonds, but I just did, um, a whole discussion with my youngest about who the Osmonds were. Mm-hmm. Like the only connection I can, so they can understand the history of this, this family and the Donnie and Marie show.

Cathy: And then, you know, Donnie and Donnie and Marie used to [01:25:00] always be at, uh, in Vegas too, by the way. Now it’s just Donnie. But the only connection I could give them was that Donny Osmond sang the part in Mulan, that song that they love. Hmm. The let’s get down to business. And they love Mulan, so they’re like, oh, that’s the all they could connect to Donny Osmond.

Cathy: But I was like, that family, what? You know, just like this, they were explaining, you know, they were, it’s not about comparing them who’s bigger, obviously Michael Jackson is bigger, but it’s the same kind of dynamic and, you know, understanding that,

Todd: was this a song?

Clip: Yes. Went through Mr. I Make A Man Outta You,

Todd: weren’t they? Uh, were they Mormon? What was their deal? They were, mm-hmm. Okay. Got it.

Cathy: Well, it’s funny, Michael, the Jacksons were Jehovah’s Witness. Oh really? And I think the Osmonds were Mormon, so that’s really interesting.

Clip: Yeah.

Cathy: Um, you know, so, and then the [01:26:00] Hansen brothers are really Christian. Like, there tends to be this religious component.

Cathy: Not always, but anything else for parenting? No, but I think we should do a list.

Todd: Should we go to list? Yeah, let’s do a list. Should we do,

Cathy: like, how do, what list do you wanna do this? Like, the best songs, the best bands, or the best? I have to do the Best Backstreet Boys song.

Todd: So let’s save BSB for the end.

Todd: Okay. Let’s go Best Bands first. Okay. Um, and you’re gonna go, and I’m just gonna make throw it my two. So

Cathy: let me be very clear, is that I am not going to do The Beatles or the Osmonds Yeah. Or anything that came. I’m gonna do the late nineties and, um. The two thousands. Yeah. Okay. The sweet

Todd: spot of the boy band,

Cathy: because we’re talking about boy bands, so, you know, so that’s what I’m doing, just so we can stay in that genre.

Cathy: So, um, number 10, I am going to say it is take that, uh, which is the UK uh, band that was put together by Simon Cowell, only because they were, weren’t as big here, but they did have some crossover hits and they were beloved. So I really liked [01:27:00] Okay. Take that. Okay. So you already played a little bit of it. Um, yeah, I did.

Cathy: But you, you know, you know what that is. Yes. Um, number nine, this will be controversial because I’m sure people would put them much higher, but for me, new kids on the block, um, oh boy. I know number. Remember? Not, I, I was not, that’s they’re not my guys. Like, I just, so again, this is very personal. I think the song I liked by them was called Cover Girl.

Cathy: I think I liked that. Okay. And I think Joey sang it. He also sang, please Don’t Go Girl. But I, they’re, they just weren’t my thing.

Todd: Is it because they were from Boston, sweetie? No. Come against Boston people.

Cathy: The prettiest I’ve seen Sweetie. I think I just missed the bigness of them ’cause I was in college. Okay. Or maybe ’cause they weren’t as good maybe, uh, number eight I put 98 degrees. Okay. So that’s the Lasher [01:28:00] brothers. That’s, um, you know, that’s them.

Todd: 98

Cathy: degrees. Okay. 90 degrees number seven. I put LFO. We have not talked about LFO.

Cathy: Okay. I had a moment with LFO. Um, can you think of a song that you Yeah, absolutely. Uh, there’s a song called Girl on tv. Okay. And the guy wrote it, the lead singer wrote it and he wrote it about Jennifer Love Hewitt, who is his girlfriend. And so the whole video, she’s in it. And it was such the time of Jennifer Love Hewitt.

Cathy: I know you loved her. I did. Of course everybody did. Yeah. So. It was kind of a nice crossover, a boy band and someone who had been pop

Todd: culture. So what did LO stand for? You know, I don’t know. It’s LYTE, light funky ones.

Cathy: And they also sang that Abercrombie and Fitch song.

Todd: Don’t know that one

Cathy: summer, you know, I like Girls Who wear Abercrombie and Fitch.

Cathy: They sang that. So they made Abercrombie and Fitch’s stock go way up. Um, number six I put Hanson. Okay. Bop bop. I loved that song in its own right. I also, I, it’s the [01:29:00] second song I learned to play on the drums. By the way, after Greta Van Fleet, uh, number five, I put Boys to Men. Okay. Uh, obviously for the reasons we had talked about at the beginning of the show, they were the very beginning.

Cathy: Um, number four, I put the Jonas Brothers. Oh, wow. Uh, again, I was not as into them at when they were at their biggest, but my niece was super into them. And then I’ve appreciated seeing what they’ve been doing in their adulthood. And I just like the Jonas Brothers. Um, and then the last three are pretty simple.

Cathy: Number three for me is in sync.

Todd: Mm-hmm.

Cathy: Number two is One Direction. Yeah. And number one is Backstreet Boys.

Todd: Um, not terribly surprised by any of those pics. Okay. Just because I know you so well.

Clip: Yeah.

Todd: Um, let’s do songs next. Okay. Boy, I’m nervous

Cathy: all. Did you do a list? No. Of songs? No. You didn’t do your favorite.

Cathy: So this, this is different by the way. You know, different than what? Well, it’s some, this is about the songs, right? So it’s not like I’m saying these are the best bands, even though there’s like some [01:30:00] intermingle. We’re

Todd: doing songs, sweetie. Okay. So because we just did bands, now we’re doing songs.

Cathy: Okay. So you gotta find these so people can hear it.

Cathy: Do

Todd: my best.

Cathy: So number 10 is a Song by Soul decision. They were not very popular.

Todd: Never heard of it, but they

Cathy: are a boy band and their song was called Faded.

Todd: Okay, let’s see if we can find that one. Um,

Cathy: and anytime I hear it, I listen to it like I stop on my Sirius XM radio. I’m like, I love this song.

Clip: Never

Todd: heard of

Clip: it.

Cathy: Keep,

Clip: oh, keep going. Sorry.

Cathy: Looks so good and funky. Right, right, right. It’s like a little more like got the r and b thing. Okay. So that’s my number 10, which is really weird. ’cause Who, I don’t even never heard that band that. I love that song. Number nine. You already played it Girl on tv.

Cathy: Okay. By LFOI really liked that song. Number eight is a Jonas Brothers song. Okay. And it’s my favorite fun song. We were singing [01:31:00] it on vacation in the pool the other day. Um, it’s called year, year 3000. Wow. It’s a long time away. I know. It’s so fun. Um, and everybody knew the words in the pool, so that was what was fun.

Cathy: I wasn’t in the pool by the way.

Cathy: Wait for the chorus. It’s a little bit Okay. You’re there. Go ahead. Turn it up.

Clip: Okay.

Cathy: So love that song. Okay. Number seven. I love this show. I’m having so much fun. I know you’re babe number seven. You’ve already played it a little bit. Take that back for good. Okay. So you, we good there? Number six is 98 degrees. The hardest thing.

Todd: Okay. 98 degrees the hardest thing. Mm-hmm. And is that the cliche one?

Todd: Correct. Okay. Let’s just give people wearing a turtleneck in the video. So he’s [01:32:00] kinda losing me.

Cathy: Well, and The Lonely Island, their album was called Turtleneck in a Chain. That’s so, they’re kind of making fun of this whole thing. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Todd: Yeah. I’m glad I didn’t have to do music videos.

Todd: It’s so cheesy. It’s so cheesy.

Cathy: Okay, my number five is very random, but I’m gonna explain it. It’s by a, um. A boy band called Big Time Rush.

Clip: Okay. And

Cathy: they were popular when the girls were really little and they were also a manufactured group for tv. They were gonna be like The Monkeys. Okay. Okay. So it was like a reality television show.

Cathy: And, but they would sing. And so their first album, I think was called Big Time Rush, but they had this song called If I Ruled the World. Okay. Um, with ias was the, he, they sang it. He sang it with him. But I still have this in all, like in a bunch of playlists. And the girls liked it too. So you can turn up,[01:33:00]

Cathy: you keep kind of turning it down. Are you done? Well, I just, I, I don’t know how much you want me to play. I know we’re not supposed to, but I love it. Okay. Okay. Love that song. Okay, number four. Uh, one Direction best song ever. I mentioned at the beginning of the show that this is. There’s so many One Direction songs I like, but this is literally the best song ever.

Cathy: You know, I’m kind of going with the title.

Clip: I

Cathy: love it.

Clip: This is the video. Yeah.

Cathy: You keep playing that crazy video.

Todd: So they’re not saying this song is the best song ever? No.

Cathy: They’re talking about another song that they dance to. So it’s a little bit meta.

Todd: What song are they thinking is

Cathy: the best song ever? I don’t know, but they dance to it. Okay. And then number three, of course. And you haven’t played it yet, is um, B Okay.

Cathy: I think I did play a little m bop. You did

Todd: A little bit. Yeah. Play again. Okay. Get a little Hanson Brothers.[01:34:00]

Cathy: Okay. Ooh.

Todd: Sorry I was or turn down. Was it? But I, I wanted to play a little bit of the other Hanson brothers. Um,

Cathy: who are the other Hanson brothers? Um, you mean the grownup version?

Todd: Um, I’m trying to think of a funny scene to play. Uh, but it’s all visual. You were

Cathy: playing the Hanson brothers from the slap shot.

Cathy: From Slap shot? Yeah. We’re not gonna play them today. Okay. I’m just

Clip: looking. You guys triplets or something? No, I’m in the middle of Steve’s 20 and Jeff’s 18. Where you from? Iron League. Iron League. I lot of fight. Nah. Hey, I want a soda.

Todd: See guys my age

Clip: for a week. Then you gotta find

Todd: and bring in their race cars.

Todd: Todd’s gotta inject some masculinity. This Oh my God. Well they’re, they’re, they just got accepted to play for the Charlestown Chiefs and they brought their race [01:35:00] cars with them. The toy race cars that you race around. Yeah. Oh, and one of the best moments of any movie ever is when the Hanson brothers take the ice for the very first time.

Cathy: Yes, I hear Bill Simmons talk about that can happen.

Todd: It will not, it will not, uh, play well on a podcast. But if you wanna laugh, I might put that in the Men Living Newsletter, just that scene because,

Cathy: and all, all guys know it, at least from our generation. Right?

Todd: All like bro guys know it like I was and still am a little bit.

Todd: So,

Cathy: all right, you, you are a little broy.

Todd: All right, what’s next?

Cathy: Uh, number two, I had to choose an NSYNC song and so IC choose. I chose, it’s Gonna Be Me ’cause I looked through what I listened to the most and that’s the one.

Todd: All right,

Cathy: so that’s the one I chose.

Todd: Let me see if I can pull a little bit of that one.

Todd: Is that the one where they’re kind,

Clip: know, bearing no time.

Clip: You know it’s gonna be[01:36:00]

Clip: Justin

Cathy: Great song. Um, and then I am putting his, the Best Boy Band song to me. Mm-hmm. Is obvious. You know what it is.

Todd: Tell me why. Yes, yes. Well, we’ll save that for the end.

Cathy: Okay. So that is my list of bands and my favorite boy band songs. And the reason I said I had to do a Backstreet Boys’ favorite songs is because this isn’t really true.

Cathy: ’cause all my favorite boy band songs are by Backstreet Boys. But these are, if I had to choose one, sweetie does this, is this song

Todd: in your top 10.

Clip: Scene with the GOs from the bag Lashes. What? So just a little mess. This

Cathy: makes me laugh so hard too. What are we listening to? This is from the Amy Schumer show and it’s called, she’s talking about taking off her makeup and they’re like, so keep playing it.

Cathy: Play this part.[01:37:00]

Cathy: So the whole gist of it is when One Direction came out with their song, you don’t know You’re Beautiful. Which the whole thing is like you’re just so natural and you have no makeup and you don’t know how beautiful you are. So the Amy Schumer thing is they keep telling her to take her makeup off.

Todd: Yeah.

Cathy: And then when she does they’re like, put it on.

Todd: That is funny.

Cathy: It is. It’s just great. Good humor. Okay, so Todd, we’re out of that. We’re out of that. Now we’re into Cringe. Your classic. Okay. Let

Todd: me play a little cringe. Your classic action.

Todd: Nobody puts baby in the corner. Nobody, babe. Nobody. All right. So we just go through the bands. What do you wanna do here? No, I

Cathy: would just say, I was just, I’m gonna be so lame for this category. Some of it’s cringe, some of it’s classic that How about that? Yes. I mean, because I don’t really wanna go through every band [01:38:00] and whether they’re, because I’ve already, they’re parts of it.

Cathy: Part of Backstreet Boys are cringe. Part of NSYNC is cringe. It’s also should fight your

Todd: tongue.

Cathy: Of course. They’re the fight Your tongue playing games with my heart. Video is super cringey. Is that? Yes. Um, and they’ve done other things that are cringey. I’ve told you, I’ve, I’m very open with you about things that I think are cringe.

Cathy: Yes. You know, like nobody, so are we. We’re cringey sometimes too,

Todd: sweetie. Do you remember the Backstreet Boys Burger King commercial? No. You can play it for me. I am. Pretty basic.

Clip: It just says that you, the Backstreet Boys agreed to appear at a Burger King, yada yada. And what’s the yada yada little commercial?

Clip: Forget it. We don’t do commercial. Not our style, man. We wouldn’t even do this for lifetime supply of free Whoppers.

Clip: Don’t we do the cheap? That’s really what

Cathy: now

Clip: get

Cathy: line music. They also do a commercial for like laundry detergent. Oh really? Yeah. Oh boy. More recent. Oh wow. Yeah. Um, but anyway, you know, gotta live. Yes, but I’m, they’re doing pretty good [01:39:00] looking at the sphere. Um, so now what we’re down to is we’re finishing up everybody.

Cathy: I can give you my favorite Backstreet Boys songs. We can play the music game or we can do trivia.

Todd: Um, or we could do all three. But what order? Let’s do Backstreet Boys song first. Yay. Um,

Cathy: you ready? Do you have Backstreet Boys pulled up on iTunes? You can play a little of these. It’s easier

Todd: to go through YouTube so.

Todd: It’s easier to go through YouTube. Yeah. Are you sure? Yeah, because there’s like a three second delay whenever I pull it up on iTunes.

Cathy: Okay. So we’re gonna do, uh, oh God, I struggle about what? We already made your list. I did, but then I’m thinking just touch your list. Okay. I’m gonna do, uh, drowning

Todd: as number 10.

Todd: Drowning. Okay. Let’s get a little drowning, actually. Okay. I also liked a song called Drown, but it’s by the pumpkin.

Clip: All

Cathy: right. That’s number two. Okay. Drowning. They did a greatest Hits album several years ago, and Drowning was an extra song. Wow. Oh, it’s not on any of the [01:40:00] other albums. Okay. Number nine, you’ll like this one. Number nine, my favorite, uh, Backstreet Boys song is Incomplete. Yes. Off the Never Gone album. This was right after my first daughter was born and she loved this song that she’s the Is Oh really?

Todd: Whenever we played the song, she was JC would roll around. She was, I don’t even think she could walk yet. Uhuh, she was like, like a year. And whenever this song came on, she would just roll around and just like tune into the music in a way That is pretty cool. So.

Cathy: Which they did not play this at the sphere and I was pretty bummed. I know you, uh, ’cause they usually play it in their, their thing. Okay. Number eight mm-hmm. Is Shape of My Heart Off the Black and Blue album.

Todd: Okay. Of course it’s Off The Black. And who [01:41:00] doesn’t know It’s Not Off the Back Black and Blue album, sweetie.

Cathy: Alright. Okay. Number seven. My most fun song to play and sing to ’cause it’s so hard to sing to and I love it, is the call. Mm-hmm. Off the Black and Blue album. And this is basically AJ’s song. And let me say that this was the height of his addiction. Okay. But I love seeing this song at the concert.

Cathy: He’s cheating on his girl in this song. Oh no. Um, number six, this is a kind of a B-side. This never really became a hit, but they play it at their concerts because they know everybody who loves them loves this song. It’s called Get Another Boyfriend.

Todd: Get Another Boyfriend. Mm-hmm. Oh, I love this song. I’m just kidding.

Todd: I don’t know it, but I’m sure it’s great. [01:42:00]

Cathy: Best part,

Cathy: I and everybody in the crowd goes crazy when this comes on ’cause it’s kind of like, you know, when you go to see your band and then they play a song that not everybody knows. Yeah. Okay.

Todd: That’s for the true blues.

Cathy: Correct. Uh, number five. Uh, more than that, which is another ballad, but it’s really, I, I love it and it’s got a lot of, um, Howie in it.

Cathy: Great. All right. Okay. So this was hard. 1, 2, 3, 4 was hard. Um, so basically I did my favorites to hear in concert, and I think it’ll surprise people. Okay. But not that anyone really cares how much, but surprise me, I put number four as everybody.

Todd: Everybody, yeah. Yeah. Rock your body.[01:43:00]

Cathy: This is a great video, by the way, and a great song. Um, my number three, you’ve played a few times already, is as long as you love me, and that just has a special place because that was the one I used to the video I used to play, blah, blah, blah. We all know. And then number two, mm-hmm. Is what they open with.

Cathy: Okay? What do they open with Todd? I have no idea. You don’t know? No. Okay. They open with a song called Larger Than Life. Oh, larger than, and it’s so awesome. And they’ve done it at, at their, all their Vegas shows. They open with this song and it’s just such a great opening song.

Cathy: Can you see? Can’t you see? And this is written for their fans. So it’s written for Mo. [01:44:00] Yes. And then number one, you’ve already played it a number of times. Yes. Is of course I want it that way. Um, because it’s just, it, the song has its own life beyond them, you know, it’s just important to everybody. So, and we’ll close out with that, or something like that.

Cathy: What are your favorites?

Todd: Um, just read them. Uh, just, uh, I want it that way, sweetie. I’m just gonna go with number one.

Cathy: No, you just said that Incomplete was on your list. That is,

Todd: is it incomplete and then I want it that way.

Cathy: That’s it.

Todd: Yes.

Cathy: My God.

Todd: Yes.

Cathy: Okay. So are we gonna play the music game?

Todd: Um, I didn’t come up with any type of music game a good one.

Todd: Okay. What do you got?

Cathy: Last week when we did Hairbands, I didn’t come up with one. Yes, but you did. Okay. So I was like, okay, I had to go into that time period. Right. Like what was going on, like nineties, all that. Okay. So do you remember the episode of Friends? Mm-hmm. When they do the routine on the Yes. Rock and Dick and Yes.

Cathy: Eve, whatever. And there’s the routine. They do the song to is called Trouble With Boys. Okay. [01:45:00] And I just thought, you know, boy Bands and it’s that era and it’s friends. So it’s by Loretta, L-O-R-E-T-A.

Clip: You remember the routine, sweetie?

Todd: I’m watching it right now. Are you? Of course we could probably do it. It’s hilarious. We should do it and then we’ll put it on Insta Snapp,

Cathy: we

Todd: go,

Cathy: what? 6, 7, 8,

Todd: um, music game. And then do we have trivia? Did you like my entry? You’re not giving me any props. Well, you’re, it’s a one horse race because I didn’t come up with one.

Todd: So you win, sweetie.

Cathy: Thank

Todd: you. Thank you, thank you.

Cathy: Okay. Trivia. I, I am not quite sure how good I’ll be at every, but I mean, Backstreet Boys. I know, but everything else we’ll see.

Todd: Um, which member of NSYNC was the last to join the group? Ooh, let’s see. Oh yeah, I didn’t play my trivia song first. I gotta do that.

Todd: Speaking of great lyricists, this guy. [01:46:00] Okay, we’ll do it. Guess it was Lance. Very good sweetie. Thank you. Nice job. You’re one for one. Uh, before forming one Direction, which member was in a band called The Rogue?

Cathy: God? I have no idea. Zane. I’m just guessing. Very good. You’re two for

Todd: two.

Cathy: My guess is so

Todd: yeah, I, I asked the trivia people to gimme very difficult ones because the other ones are like,

Cathy: can I say something real quick though?

Cathy: That I told you is I put something into chat GPT to find out more about Liam’s death. Liam Payne from One Direction and it said Liam Payne has not died. Yeah. And then I had to say to chat, you are wrong. Liam Payne has died and so I had to fight with chat. Okay, keep going.

Todd: What was the original name of the Jonas Brothers band before they became famous?

Todd: No idea. Sons of Jonas.

Cathy: Oh, okay. They really switched it up there.

Todd: What boy band did Justin Timberlake’s, future wife’s ex-boyfriend belong to

Cathy: Future Wife. So Jessica Beal’s, ex-boyfriend. What band did he belong

Todd: to? Yeah, Jonas Brothers. Says 98 Degrees. Oh, [01:47:00] Nick Leche. Oh,

Cathy: I didn’t know that. Jessica Beal

Todd: dated.

Todd: I don’t even know if it’s true. Okay. Uh, which member of the new kids on the block was known as The Bad Boy? Donnie very good, just like his brother. Mark. Which one Direction member has a fear of spoons?

Cathy: One Direction has a fear of somebody in there.

Todd: That’s what it says.

Cathy: Uh, I’ll just say

Todd: Harry. Liam Payne.

Todd: He’s dead. Is that the guy who died? Mm-hmm. What was the Boys to Men? Longest running. Number one hit. Uh, one Sweet Day with Mariah Carey. It says End of the Road. Oh, maybe they’re disqualifying it because it was them. And Mariah, you’re right. That could be, uh, which Jackson Five member was known for playing the bongos?

Todd: Ooh, uh, I don’t know Randy. That would be Tito. Tito. Uh, which one? Director, one Direction Member was born in Pakistan. Zane. Very good. And then lastly, what member of Minuto later became famous? Ricky Martin. Very good. You did great, sweetie.

Cathy: Thanks.

Todd: Nice job. Um, [01:48:00] what are we gonna finish with?

Cathy: Wow. I’m gonna let you decide because I, you know what I’ll say, um, but I, I really enjoyed this, Todd, so thank you.

Cathy: You’re welcome, babe. I, when we started Zen Pop Parenting, I said, I really would like to talk about boy bands because, can I finish with a thought? Sure. You don’t have to like them any better than you did before you started listening to this. I just really like the idea, um, of that. Okay. I, I actually didn’t mention this.

Cathy: I said I come back to this and I didn’t. One thing I talk to teen Girls about is there’s certain parts of themselves that they hide because they don’t think it’s cool or they think that people won’t respect them as much, or they’re trying to say, oh, I like this band, or this music, because other people tell them to.

Cathy: And I think one thing that’s really important regardless of our age is if we like something just like it and instead of questioning why or thinking that you’re not cool or thinking that there’s something wrong with you, there are different reasons. Like I, I’ve given so many different reasons why I like Backstreet Boys.

Cathy: Some of them is really somber. [01:49:00] Like when my dad was sick, they cheered me up. Some of it is seeing the live concerts, some of it is certain songs remind me of Todd and some of it is, I just like it and that’s okay. And if it’s not even boy bands say you like heavy metal or hairbands or, or you like really, you know, different kind of country music or whatever.

Cathy: It’s okay to just like it. Like you don’t have to give a million explanations and be like, oh this is uncool, but, or the worst part is hiding it. Yeah. Don’t hide it. Yeah. Like I, that’s something I just don’t, I just don’t believe in that no matter what age we are because then you’re not allowing people to connect with you on that piece.

Cathy: Yeah. You know, show yourself. Show yourself. That’s right. That’s from Frozen two. Remember that song?

Todd: Oh yeah, that’s right. Let’s end with that song. No, we gotta end with, I want it that way. We, the only version of it we played so far was the Brooklyn nine nine. Oh. So you really wanna, like close, you really gotta play.

Todd: I wanna thank Jeremy Kraft. He’s a baldhead of beauty. He, uh, has been our sponsor since day one. If anybody out there is in the Chicagoland area and needs a home [01:50:00] improvement project, painting or remodeling, give ’em a call. 6 3 0 9 5 6 1800. I want it that way.

Todd: All right. That’s all she wrote. I’ll cut that because sometimes it just starts playing things, uh, even though I don’t.

Round two. Change a little bit. [01:51:00] And change a little bit. Pretty pleasant.