[00:00:00]

If I may speak freely, this should not be his first assignment. I’ve worked homicide five years, not here. But how long have you lived here? Too long?

9 1 1. What’s your emergency? No fingerprints. No witnesses of any kind? No. It means that this is beginning. All right. Is that enough? There are seven. Did listen. Oh, blackening read Pride Law Wrath Lust. And Envi Envy is the last one. That’s the last one that they do. Well, John Doe didn’t do it in order. No, he didn’t.

He ’cause Wrath was his last one. And here we thought that he was organized. Yes. Good old John Doe. He did ’em in his own order. That’s why they didn’t catch on until, until he [00:01:00] let them catch on. I think after greed they caught on. He’s in complete control pretty much of the entire movie. Oh yeah. Uh,

Hi, my name’s Todd Adams. I’m with uh, Zen Pop Parenting. Yeah, me too. And Zen Pop Parenting is where Gen X pop culture meets real life reflection. That’s right. And on today’s show, we’re doing a little, uh, upbeat movie called Seven. It’s so funny because seven to me is similar to Silence of the Lambs. Yes, I get it. It’s scary.

There’s parts of it that I don’t watch. They’re gross, but it doesn’t terrify me in the way it terrifies other people. There’s other movies that terrify me. I watched this last night. Again, in the dark by myself while doing crossword puzzles. Like I’m not, I’m kind of unaffected. Was it really in the dark?

Yeah. Oh, wow. Because I look, I took some videos. Well, no, I was gonna say, I, there’s a flaw in your thinking. There is. ’cause how do you do crossword puzzles in the dark? I, I had, I had all the lights, overhead lights off and then, you know that lamp in the gray? Yeah. Chair. Yeah. I had that on my crossword puzzle.

There you go. So you’re right, it wasn’t pitch [00:02:00] dark. Mm-hmm. But I was not the, my point is, it’s less about my light and more about it. Maybe I’ve just seen it too many times. Yeah. I mean this is 1995. That’s 30 years. I know. And just like a hot take right off the bat. Hold on. Lemme get a little hot. Take action.

Okay. Boy, it’s hot. This is hot. Never drop this hot in Brooklyn, which hot take. So my hot take is this, um. Brad Pitt is so Brad Pitt in this movie. Oh my God. My hot take is a little similar to this. Brad Pitt has this vocal inflection that just is with him in a lot of his early movies where he does this voice that nobody else does, but Brad Pitt and it, and if you don’t know what I’m talking about, I I did record some of it because I was like, oh my god, that’s so Brad Pitt.

Um, and I don’t know how to explain it. Do you know how to explain it? He has this like, sweetie, I’m coming in hot here too. Okay, let’s hear it. Boy, it’s hot. So two hot takes the beginning. Okay. My [00:03:00] hot take is that Brad Pitt annoys me throughout this entire movie. So he doesn’t annoy me with the exception of, and, and, and I think he is one of our better actors.

He is certainly not my favorite, but he’s one of our better actors of our generation and. He, I see him acting in the movie. Oh, interesting. Okay. Okay. So, and it’s, and that’s why it’s annoying or maybe he’s a really good actor and I’m just supposed to be annoyed at Mills. That’s the character he plays. I was gonna say, I think he does a good job with the levels of mills, because Mills is cocky.

Yeah. But he’s also insecure. Yep. He’s pretty perceptive, but he’s also not that smart. Mm-hmm. Um, he wants to be in charge, but he also knows he shouldn’t be in charge. Right. I think he has to play a lot of things at once. And so I didn’t, it was less about, I’m annoyed at his acting if, but I did, I guess my point is I saw Brad Pitt though, I guess that’s my point.

Yeah. Is [00:04:00] that there’s this vocal inflection that he does where he talks like this and I, and I, and I just don’t know. And that’s his thing, you know, I’m sure every actor has a thing they do. Um, yeah. But anyway, there was a few times when I had to record it just to like. Point it out to myself. Having said that, my one exception, okay, is that at the very end of the movie and he’s deciding whether or not he wants to kill Kevin Spa’s character.

Oh, it’s excellent acting excellent, excellent acting. Excellent acting. He crushed it. In that last scene, he cries and even in didn’t get serious. Even in the car, uh, car ride. Not even the car ride. Uh, he’s in shock. He’s a little, uh, no, no. Before, before, oh, on the way there, he’s a little annoying. Like he’s just annoying.

The entire movie that I caught onto watching it last night more is how anxious they both were about going with him on this ride. And I don’t mean just the ride, I mean, I was listening more [00:05:00] intently to the conversa. You know, when the lawyer’s like, here’s what he wants, here’s what he demands played by the guy from West Wing.

Oh yeah. Richard Schiff. Yeah. I didn’t even, he didn’t have a beard, so I didn’t recognize him. And he’s, you know, and they’re kind of like, why are you representing this awful human being? But that’s his job. Um, but he’s like, here’s what he demands, here’s what you need to do. And they’re both kind of like, we got him.

Mm-hmm. Let’s not do this. Mm-hmm. And they’re like, well, two more people are gonna die and you’re gonna get blamed for it. Whatever. They basically get forced into this and them getting ready to go on the car ride. Yep. They feel young to me. They feel it’s not about youth, it’s about nervous for the first time.

Like, there’s so much they do in the movie where you’re like, oh, they’re just, they’re cops and they’re, and I’m like, Ooh, they’re nervous. And then in the car, Morgan Freeman is more like the dad and Brad Pitt’s more like a sibling. Kinda like antagonizing him the entire movie. Morgan Freeman is kind of the elder Wiseman.

Yeah. But, but he’s [00:06:00] not so wise. He’s so jaded. And there’s that scene in the bar right where. He’s like, I cannot subscribe to the way that you look at things because I need to have hope. I feel like Morgan Freeman has, maybe he’s got a little hope, but he’s just so beat down. Well, he’s jaded but gentle. He said, you know, when they’re talking about how, you know, how do you live in a place like this?

How do you think these things are okay? Mm-hmm. And he’s like, I don’t, that’s why I wanna keep that right. That I don’t think this is okay. I’ve never said it’s okay. I’m just saying that it’s happening right all the time. And you know, just to, I’m just gonna throw this in. Even though it’s a random fact that they never say what city it is.

No, they’re so, they’re not like New York or LA or Chicago. They’re like, there is Detroit. They don’t say, so the whole idea is that. This is our plight. That’s [00:07:00] right. So anyway, um, we are going to set the scene. I think, um, actually I just want to play it just because we were just talking about it. Oh, go ahead.

When they’re in the bar, play the lotto and watch out. You get like this. Wanna know

it wasn’t one thing. I can tell you that

I just don’t think I can continue to live in a place that embraces and nurtures apathy as if it was virtue, you know, different, you know, better say I was different. I’m not. I sympathize. I, I really like the dialogue. Mm-hmm. In this movie. It’s good writing. My, my thing is, uh, this movie, ’cause I was kinda sort of watching it fast forwarding through it and all the body, one of my, like you, we have a, um, I’m skipping categories here, but we have a category called, [00:08:00] where is it?

This one,

it’s time to get going. So time to move on is which scenes in the movie. Can you just skip over and I’m gonna go ahead and say mine right now. We’re gonna be outta order today, sweetie. Okay. Um. All the scenes where they’re finding the bodies. Okay. Like I know that that is probably the most intense, probably the one that costs the most to produce.

And you have the kind of the big guy who was dead at the dinner table, spaghetti to the spaghetti. I just, you could skip over. I know you for the first time, you kind of need to see, to the degree that this crazy person did this stuff. Mm-hmm. But it’s my least favorite parts of all of the entire movie.

Yeah. Like I said, I don’t really watch that anymore. Yeah. Like I’m in the movie for the dialogue and for the the detective work, even though some of the detective work is done on the scene. Yeah. But I sure as hell don’t watch the scene with the lust. I never watch [00:09:00] that scene. Speaking of scenes. Mm-hmm.

Should we? Mm-hmm.

All right. You ready for the AI summary, sweetie? Oh, that you always love so much. I, I’m excited to see what words, let’s see what they say. Do this. Um. Actually, I don’t, I think I got this from IMDB. Okay. Uh, taking place in a nameless city. Mm-hmm. Kinda like what you said. Seven follows the story of two homicide detectives tracking down a sadistic serial killer who chooses his victims.

According to the seven deadly sins, Brad Pitt is Mills, uh, a hopeful but naive rookie who finds himself partnered with veteran Detective William Somerset, played by Morgan Freeman. Together, they trace the killers every step, witnessing the aftermath of his horrific crimes one by one as a victim’s pile up in rapid succession, all the while moving closer to a gruesome fate.

Neither of them could have predicted. No, they couldn’t have predicted. So we got [00:10:00] Brad Pitt, Morgan Freeman, Gwyneth Paltrow, uh, play. Were they dating? They were dating. Mm-hmm. They never got married though, right? No, they were engaged. Okay. Never quite. Close that loop. Um, and then the guy from full metal jacket’s in this, he’s the, the sergeant, the guy that screams at, I’ve never seen full metal jacket.

Oh my God. You’ve never seen I seen that. I think so. Have I? I don’t know. I’ve seen that so many times. Yeah. I, well, I definitely haven’t seen it many times. There’s a possibility I watched it at some point, but it, I have not retained. His name is Arley m Erie. And who does he play in the, he’s the police captain.

Oh, sure. Okay. Yeah. He, yeah, he’s a familiar actor. And then finally, uh, Kevin Spacey as John Doe, but not Bill, he was not put on the poster or in the opening credit, which was, which was a genius move. And it was Kevin Spacey who said, don’t do that. Don’t put me there. Yeah. But then at the very end, the closing credits, he’s the first name.

Yeah. Um, which was in, you know, which is [00:11:00] smart. He’s, I mean, maybe he was the first person to do this, I don’t know. But, um, this is a common thing in movies that if you are going to have someone pop up who’s like the bad guy or the villain or pop up later, um, you can’t have them as a star or else the whole time you’re watching the movie, you know, waiting for this person to show up.

Isn’t that a great time of our lives when we The internet wasn’t rampant. Yeah. And we didn’t know things. Yeah. I was actually just listening to a, uh, um, another podcast and they were talking about the Blair Witch Project. It wasn’t through re watchable, it was the other one. The one like what went wrong, I think it’s called.

Yeah. And they were talking about the Blair Witch Project and just the amount that Artisan or whoever produced it got away with as far as almost, you know, pretending these kids were really dead kids. Yeah. Like, you know, like genius making it, everybody think it was truly a documentary and that we could not track that.

And I lived that ’cause I was doing my dial up. Uh, internet trying to figure out what was going on with Heather [00:12:00] and Josh and Michael. Yeah. The Blair Wedge Project. I’m like, oh my God. Um, so, uh, yes, I agree. And so a few other things about the kind of the cultural mood. It was 1995, which you may have said grunge was kind of fading out because Kurt Cobain died in 1994.

So we all had a bit of a collective hangover about that. Um, a so, um, friends had started, so there was a little optimism in there. Friends era had begun, but there was kind of a, um, you know, OJ trial had started that was dominating the headlines. Like it was definitely a change in, um, so maybe it’s just me.

No one told you that was gonna be this way. In 95. Really? Yeah. So, okay, so I graduated in 93, so I was probably about 24, 25. And I just think maybe personally a lot of things were changing for [00:13:00] me, so I just felt that you had a great job. Oh my God. The worst job. What was your job again? I was just telling somebody how I got fired.

Um, I was a recruiter in Chicago, which is what you studied in school, like how to recruit for five years. I, I should never be doing sales ’cause I just, people be like, I’m busy. I’m like, okay, no problem. Have a good day. Um, people would quit their jobs and I’d be like. You should quit your job. And that’s my money.

You know, I was awful at that job. And then he, uh, my boss Bill, who was, you know, sweet in his own way, but he tried, he went to fire me and I pretended that it wasn’t happening. And I’m like, let me go home and think about if I should do this job. But, so I actually did quit, but really I got fired. Yeah. Like, let’s be real.

Um, and then everything changed after that. You should have, uh, got, gotten yourself fired. That way you could have collected unemployment. I wasn’t thinking that way. I was too egocentric at the time. Yeah, I get it. I just didn’t wanna deal with it. But, you know, it so it, it was a, it was Clinton [00:14:00] years, um, but there was, which promised some optimism, you know, at the beginning.

But again, it wasn’t, things weren’t going well as far as Senate and Con Congress getting along. Do you know what I mean? Like. It was, it was an ugly time. You know, like there was some ugliness, um, you know, movies like Natural Born Killers, pulp Fiction. They were, it was ugly. Yeah. It’s a lot of kind of dark, you know.

Yeah. Natural Born Killers is one of the darkest movies out there. I’ve never sat through the whole thing. Pulp Fiction was a great movie. Excellent movie, but also very dark. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. So it’s like, there was just a shift in our, what we were viewing and the way we saw the world and our willingness to be darker.

Mm-hmm. And seven is, you know, just fits perfectly. I think seven is like the darkest movie I’ve ever seen. Yeah. It’s, it, the World By Design, it was kind of, um, it, it was depravity, you know, it’s depravity and it’s, [00:15:00] and it, you know, there’s so much to talk about John Doe and I know we’ll get to it about why he did what he did, but it has that.

Joker esque feel. Yeah. Um, you know, or you know, I actually just wrote something, um, last Friday. It’ll, it will have come out last Friday about why, what horror movies teach us. And John Doe actually falls in line with Thanos, who is not in horror movie. He’s in Matrix, but, or excuse me, matrix. He’s in Marvel.

Um, but it’s this belief that they’re actually, they see the world clearly under this religious lens and that they’re gonna purify. Yeah. You know, and really they’ve become what they hate, but they have no empathy and they can’t see it ’cause they’re crazy. Yeah, exactly. And so there’s just that, you know, that they’re depraved and they don’t, they don’t recognize all the people they’re hurting in their need to find order.

Um, in 1995, uh, I don’t expect you’ll get this, but any idea [00:16:00] what the best. Picture was, uh, let’s see if it was 95. Let’s see if, uh, pulp Fiction was 94. 94 was the year when all those awesome movies came out. That was Fors Gump, quiz Show, pulp Fiction, um,

or those were from. Okay, so go ahead and tell me, uh, Braveheart. Braveheart, yeah. And the other big ones were usual suspects. Kevin Sp again, Kevin. Mm-hmm. Toy Story. Sweet Toy Story. Mm-hmm. What a.[00:17:00]

Favorite movies of all time and Clueless. Great movie. Yeah. I just wasn’t young enough to appreciate it as much. Right. Um, but before Sunrise was our age. Yeah. Like who didn’t wanna be traveling across Europe, meeting someone really awesome. Right. Um, yeah. Todd loves Apollo 13. Are we gonna do Apollo 13 someday?

Probably not. It’s just a weird re watchable movie for me that it, it sets me at ease for some reason. I don’t know why. Because they get back. They do. We go back Kate. Everybody in it is trying to help each other. Yeah. It’s not depraved. Yeah. We’re, you know, and that’s the thing is like, okay, so can I tell you a few other, setting this the scene please.

Um, so. You know, I don’t know if I should say this now, like other people who are considered for Morgan Freeman’s role. Sure. Go ahead babe. Um, Al Pacino supposedly turned it down, said he didn’t wanna play another cop after heat. I don’t know if that’s true. Do does that go in the right [00:18:00] order? Um, heat would’ve been come, come out before seven.

Kevin Coser didn’t seem to have a hard time playing, uh, baseball movies there. I know. At the same time. I know, but that’s a different person. Yep. Uh, Robert Duvall and Gene Hackman supposedly were gonna be Somerset, but they thought it was too bleak. And then Morgan Freeman was perfect. Like he’s just so, you just, he’s just good.

Did you see Denzel. No, Denzel was for Brad Pitts roll. Yeah. Yeah. And he was mad that he, he, he did not take it. Mm-hmm. And then once he saw it, he is like, I should have taken it. I should they, that could have been amazing. Yeah. Um, supposedly Sylvester Stallone and Harrison Ford. Also for Brad Pitts roll, which thank God.

Sorry, but Sylvester Stallone, no thank you. Sylvester Stallone. And anything other than Rocky or Rambo it. No, thank you. And I love Sylvester Stallone. Is is First Blood Rambo? Yes. Gimme the, the best Sylvester Stallone movie that’s not Rocky or Rambo like Copland Uh, Copland. Um, I was gonna say something else.

Did he do anything funny? Didn’t he do something about [00:19:00] Mary? No, I don’t, no, I don’t know any other Sylvester Stallone movies. Yeah. Maybe besides those, I mean, I do, but that are considered good. So, so Brad Pitt had just become kind of big after interview at The Vampire, which I wish we could just do one on that.

Um, and Legends of Legends of the Fall, so one of your favorites that one of my all time favorite movies, and I hope we do that as well. Maybe we’ll have a Brad Pitt month. Um, but what I’ll say is that, that’s where Brad saw Gwyneth Paltrow, um, audition was for Legends of the Fall. Mm-hmm. She obviously did not get that.

And, but that was Rocky. Very loud in my ears. Lemme try this one.

The Italian stallion. Is he on the phone? Uh, I don’t know. I don’t remember that part. Is he knocking at the door? Yeah. Um, so anyway, so he suggested Gwyneth Paltrow for this role and yes, they were dating while it was going on. She didn’t wanna do it right. And he convinced her that, yeah, there was the, [00:20:00] a little bit of arm twisting.

Um, but she was Ashley Judd also. I, uh, auditioned for the role. And your girl? Diane Lane? Uh, not Diane Lane, previous girlfriend. I got lots of girls. You, you have lots of girls? Uh, Bridgette Fonda. Oh yeah, Bridgette Fonda. She perfect timing for her. Yeah, they both actually Ashley Judd and Bridgette Fonda would’ve been good, but Gwyneth Paltrow was really good.

Yeah. Um, a few other things that I thought were interesting watching the opening credits last night. The opening credits, um, actually tell you everything if you’re watching. Really? Yeah. So you see him, he has a razor blade. Razor blades. Okay. Because one of the things that John Doe does is he shaves off his, uh, fingerprints.

Mm-hmm. Over and over again. That’s why like when they’re, when they actually find his apartment mid movie, they’re like, there are no fingerprints in here, and there’s no fingerprints on any crime scene. I got another hot tape. Okay. Let’s hear it. You, you gonna shave yours off too? And maybe I’m missing something.

Okay. It’s such a big deal. Oh, there’s no [00:21:00] fingerprints. There’s no fingerprints. He slices off his fingers. Mm-hmm. He didn’t slice off his fingers. He sliced off the pads. I, I, I think it’s surprising how surprising these cops are that they can’t find fingerprints anywhere in the crime scene. No, no. I’m gonna talk about the crime scene.

Mm-hmm. Not where he lives. Gloves to totally, like, what’s a big deal? We no fingerprints. I don’t understand why that’s a big deal. Well, it’s frustrating. You’d think there’d be somewhere where he’d mess up if anybody’s doing anything bad, they’re gonna wear gloves. Yeah. Um, and then even at his house, like, you know, just wear gloves, dude.

It’s not that big of a deal. I think it’s kind of an extreme, but you wear gloves at your house. I’m not committing murders if I, the, the first, as soon as I start committing murders, I’m gonna be wearing gloves Like Theo from the haunting of Hill House. Exactly. That’s a go listen to that from last week.

Exactly. Um, but yes, I get it. I also, their, their shock about it is a little over the Yeah. But it, it’s also pretty gross. I mean, it’s a, it’s an interesting, it’s pretty gross. Interesting. Yeah. So in the, in the opening, first of all, closer [00:22:00] by Nine Inch Nails is playing or a version of it. Mm-hmm. And, um, Trent Resner, who sings that song, he’s the lead singer, nine Inch Nails.

He did not do the soundtrack or the, what do I wanna call it? The, the music that’s in a movie. What’s the word I’m looking for? The score. The score. Thanks. He did not do the score of the movie, but interestingly, this is a David Venture movie. He did do the score for the Social Network, which is also a David Venture movie.

Okay. Though I just thought that was kind of interesting. So the opening has razor blades. It shows him writing in the journals. Like, so you see all the journals and those are creepy because he’s, it’s, there’s so much written, um, the font is so creepy. Yeah. They did a good job with the fonts. They did. Like, it’s so jagged and dark and even the way it like goes up on screen and it’s moving, they’re, they’re trying to make us unsettled that they’re, they did a good job definitely setting the tone.

And interestingly enough, the movie starts and you get a good 10 minutes before that. Mm-hmm. So like, the movie starts with Morgan Freeman setting up, uh, the relationship between, uh, mills and [00:23:00] Somerset. Okay. So like you, first of all, they do a good j this is called, um, what is it called? Not not expository, um, exposition.

It is expository. But there’s exposition in movies where they, they have to write dialogue to introduce you to people. Yeah. And some movies do it really well, and some movies are so blatantly obvious that it’s annoying to watch. Yeah. You know, like they’ll do things like, oh, aren’t you from Chicago and don’t you have a mother that’s blah, blah.

Like, it’s too, you’re like, this is not a normal conversation. Yeah. But they opened the movie by Somerset going into a house where there has been a murder, obviously, and looking at the fridge and noticing that there’s kids’ pictures. Mm-hmm. Meaning pictures that have been drawn. And he says to another police officer, did the kids see this?

Yeah. And the police are like pissed at him. Yeah. They’re like, dude, you’re always looking at stuff like that. You’re, you make things a pain in the butt. So right off the bat, you know that he cares. Mm-hmm. You know that he’s not the easiest to work [00:24:00] with. Yep. And they also say, we’re glad you’re retiring.

Yeah. So a lot happens and then Brad Pitt comes up the stairs and you know, is like, I’m Mills, whatever. Yeah. So you’re kind of in the movie before the credits, which I think is more normal now. I don’t think it was as normal then. Right. I think, you know, like Todd and I do so many Gen X movies and one thing that’s very true about Gen X movies are opening credits are ridiculously long and boring.

Mm-hmm. You know, I, I keep thinking of the Pelican brief. It’s so long and boring, not Star Wars baby. Right. They just jump right in. There are no credits to Star Wars because it’s the best. It’s Star Wars is pretty cool. Um, I feel like I want to, I found this YouTube clip. It’s two minutes long. I’m gonna break it into small pieces, but it’s the 10 best seven quotes.

Okay. Um, so we’re gonna do that to bridge categories. You okay with that? Sure. Um, before you do that, yeah, go ahead. The last set the scene thing I have, yeah. Is for us, because I was an English minor. Were you an English minor or did you enjoy English [00:25:00] in college? I hated English classes ’cause they would give you that little blue book.

They sure would. The writing essays for the test. Gimme some true false gimme some multiple choice. I’ll take some fill in the blanks. The blue composition booklet, not a fan. Got it. But you had use composition for econ and all that kind of stuff too. Oh, econ. It’s all supply and demand, sweetie. When supply is high and demand, demand is little.

Prices go up, up, up they go. Am I doing that the right way? You wrote that one actually. Okay. See I got a D in Econ. That’s right. I can tell. That’s why I can’t sing the song. Okay. So, um, but what I was gonna say is I am a literature fan and I, um, was an English major or minor, and I had to, so why I am saying that is I had to read certain books more than one time.

Like I had to do a lot of deep dives into famous literature. And so, um. Paradise Lost is referenced in this movie. Yeah. By Milton, um, the Canterbury Tale. That was my favorite by Ser I learned that. Did you like the Canterbury Tale? Brett Lit because a bunch of short stories Yes. With I loved, uh, I loved Canterbury [00:26:00] Tales and it’s sad that, ’cause I think he had a certain amount of travelers and they were supposed to do three stories or something like that.

Yeah. But the dude died before he could finish the book. Oh. So sad. That’s interesting. Chaucer trivia. Trivia. Trivia. There you go. And then obviously my favorite is The Divine Comedy by Dante. Um, and I had to do it in high school, and I also had a college class where we focused on the Inferno for probably six months, and my teacher would go The Inferno.

He liked to say it in like an Italian way. Yeah. Um, it always made me laugh, but guess where I sat in that class? Front row? Of course you did with my friend Nancy. And I loved it. Like

I, I loved the Inferno. I mean, it’s so. Interesting, right? Yeah. And it gave us a framework of what hell was, was being at the very end, a very like large creature that, you know what, who Satan ends up being. And it’s interesting how there’s been so [00:27:00] many. Uh, not derivatives, but interesting. It’s not really like that anymore.

Yeah. When we think about, like, that’s what we used to focus on and now Satan, you know, I’m putting that in air quotes in movies tend to be more like a guy who’s like tall and, you know what I mean? Like it’s, we have these different versions in our literature and in our pop culture about what Satan really is.

Yeah. Um, but anyway, so now go ahead and do those quotes, Todd. Uh, okay. Uh, first one is this one. I think this is one they’re in the bar that I just played, but a little different. I mean this, it’s easier to lose yourself in drugs than it is to cope with life. Yeah. It’s easier to steal what you want than it is to, to earn it.

Yeah. It’s easier to beat a child than it is to raise it. Health, love costs. It takes effort and work pretty good, man. I mean is, it’s so true. Now I would. As a social worker, I would say is it really easier? In the moment it’s easier, but the long-term consequences are a million [00:28:00] times. You have so much more to deal with.

Right? And that the, this is obvious, but for a police officer who sees these things, it just seems like the more simpler solution. I don’t know how police officers keep saying, because if their job is to fight crime and to protect and serve, they’re in spaces with people that are really troubled and challenged and.

That’s all they see. That’s all they see. Well, and like Todd and I just watched a documentary called The Perfect Neighbor, uh, that came out and there, it’s all done. The whole documentary is done through body cam footage and you know, you just see what the, do the, the, the police officers have to do to diffuse situations.

And it just so happens that I think that the majority of them in this documentary did a really good job, which is probably on purpose. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like they were, um, and I do believe that for as much as there are certain police officers who make poor choices or who are racist and the way that they proceed in their job, [00:29:00] those things, there are many people, of course, who are wonderful police officers.

We know them, you know, um, and you know what they have to do to maintain their mental health and their mental wellbeing and their families. It’s, it’s above and beyond. You know, I, I can only imagine. Could be mine. Could you be mine? Won’t you be my neighbor? Yeah. Look for the helpers. Sweet. I just want to get you choked up on this Thursday morning.

I’m not gonna cry in the seven podcast. I cried too much in the hunting of Hill House podcast. Just if I cry in the seven podcasts, then whoa. Just for the record, I think Kathy’s favorite person of all time is Mr. Rogers. Yes. By the way, I think mine might be Michael J. Fox. Did you see that video I sent you?

I did see it. He’s so lovely. He is. I love him. And it’s back to the future month or something like that, or Yesterday was back to future day. We do it. If we had a podcast where we talked about movies, we might wanna highlight that. Yeah. Just saying I know. Well, we couldn’t in spooky season. I know. [00:30:00] We are in spooky season.

Maybe we’ll do a Michael J. Fox month. But that there, I’m trying to think of movies besides Back to the future. I like, uh, the Bright Light. What’s the Bright Lights one? What is that called? Bright Lights. Big City. No. Is that what Key for Su Key for Sutherland? That’s where he met in Tracy Pollen was in it too.

His wife. Yeah. Maybe it was called Bright Lights. Big City. And then, um, what other,

he was in that one Uncon, the one with Sean Penn where they’re in the war. Yeah. Yeah. I’ve never seen that one. Yeah. What are some other Michael J. Fox movies? Oh, teen Wolf. We can do Teen Wolf. That’s not too Teen Wolf. Have we already done Teen Wolf? Yeah, we did it. Did we? No. Oh, I would love to do, sweetie.

You love Styles. Styles. You wanna talk about styles in Teen Wolf? No. I, I don’t. Okay, so should we go to remember when, uh, yeah, hold, let me, uh, head on over there. Okay.

Remember when.[00:31:00]

Why you couldn’t wait to love me. Couldn’t wait to leave me. Um, I think I may have seen this movie in the theater. Mm-hmm. And I remember not having any idea what was going on at the end of the movie. And it was building to something massive. Like I knew that even though I didn’t know, I knew that this ending was gonna deliver in a way that I couldn’t even imagine.

Like maybe some people predicted the head in the box. No. How could they, how could they? Uh, because the, when the van starts driving. Yeah. And I just, I just wanted, and you know, the other thing is when he turns himself in and there’s so much more movie to go, he was so confused. I’m like, wait a second. I know.

I remember that. This movie is different because the bad guy just turned himself in. Yeah. And we got another 40 minutes of this movie. So I just remember being sweet. Can you say [00:32:00] detective? Um, doesn’t he yelled? He should. He’s like detective. He does. We’ll get to that detective. We’ll get to that. And that’s a haunting way.

He says that. He’s like polite. Says yell a little bit of water and then he needs to detective. Yeah. Um, yes. Um, so that’s what I remember. So I don’t remember the first time I saw it. I have a hard time believing I saw it in the theater. Mm-hmm. Because I feel like I would’ve remembered, I think it was more after I probably saw it on VHS, you know, I probably saw it on videotape.

Right. Um, and then just watch. Or maybe I saw it on tv. I don’t remember. I just know that now I’ve seen it a million times. Yeah. Um, because it was on TBS and all those station. Are you ready for a little detective action? Sure, go ahead.

Active. Detective after this detective. Big surprised.[00:33:00]

You’re looking for me. Oh my God. And, and he and Brad Pitt’s good in that scene too. He is. So, he’s like, oh my God. Oh my God. Like there’s, they can’t even believe what they’re like. Morgan Freeman can’t even believe what he’s seen. Yeah. Um, and you know, they’re, they just kind of feel like they’re not at a dead end, but they keep kind of almost getting the guy and then they don’t Yeah.

And so then he turns himself in. So I don’t have a lot of remember when, let’s go to random facts. Um, okay. Oh, before we do that, I wanna, okay, well I’ll play another quote in a second.

It’s kind of a very weird soundbite we’re doing right now, sweetie. I know. Human. Very so creepy. Connected to the movie. Oh my God. And there’s been a lot of discussion. I remember listening to her re watchable about seven years ago, and there was a lot of discussion about that box Yeah. That her head is in and how it didn’t like leak [00:34:00] through.

Yeah. Well, it may put in a bag, I guess, but, so I guess that box was about eight pounds. Or maybe he, I was gonna say that, but I thought it was a poor taste. So you said it for me. I mean, a box was, I mean, he, the first of all that, the van driving down there, I, I think I remember that the first time I saw it, that I thought the van was gonna explode or something.

Yeah, yeah. Something like that. There was something. And so when you see that the guy getting outta the van is like, dude, I do not know what’s going on. Yeah. He wrap his pants and then I, I, gosh, I wish I could remember if, um, if I knew the whole thing before I. Like if I knew her head was in the box, I don’t remember.

Well, it’s weird because you would think that that is a, an ending that a lot of people would wanna spoil for you. ’cause it’s so That’s what I mean, I wonder, um, different, uh, but I think I went in cold. Yeah. It’s really like, then that’s where Morgan Freeman really shines because he almost becomes like a kid.

Oh [00:35:00] yeah. Morgan Freeman is terrified. He’s terrified and he’s like, don’t Yeah. You know, put your gun. But yeah, he’s like, he runs over there and they, again, Fincher is just a great director, but he does all the shots from the helicopter. Yeah. So you’re watching them almost like. You know, they’re like ants Yeah.

On the ground running back and forth. And Mills is like, you know, wondering what’s going on. Um, and I wanna, can I say a few random facts about Fincher first? Sure. Just to kind of, then I’ll go after you ’cause it’s got a bunch. Great. So David Fincher’s, the director of this movie, um, and he started, he interestingly started at Lucasfilm, um, in the ILM, the Industrial Light and Magic.

He worked on Return of The Jedi and Indiana Jones and The Temple of Doom. I didn’t know that. Mm-hmm. Um, that was new to me. Me neither. Um, he, uh, for anyone who’s a Fincher fan, you know, that he doesn’t like first takes, he usually shoots 50 plus of everything. Yikes. And so there’s a lot of actors that have worked with David Fincher, um, who have gotten really [00:36:00] burned out.

The one I always think about is Jake Gyllenhaal. Zodiac, which was a Fincher movie that he got so, so burned out because they were just take after take after take after take. And um, he basically, a fincher’s quote that he said was, I don’t want people acting. I want them behaving. So he basically just kind of breaks them down.

And so they’re doing it more, you know, it’s more natural I guess. I don’t know. It’s interestingly because Clint Eastwood, who’s also a wonderful director, um, or a well thought of director, I should say. He is the opposite. He does the opposite. First take, let’s move on. Yeah, we got it. So, um, uh, Fincher doesn’t like improvisation.

Um, he likes controlled environments. I’m not quite sure I would work very well with David Fincher. I don’t think so either. Um, he, this was interesting. He directed mu music videos in the eighties and nineties. He made, uh, express yourself and Vogue with Madonna. He did Paula Abdul, um, videos, George Michael Aerosmith.

So he kind of defined that MTV. Aesthetic. You know, with his, with the [00:37:00] way he made films. Um, he disowned his first film, which was Alien. Uh, he didn’t like it. And I don’t, I don’t know. Do you know the story behind that? Why Fincher didn’t like Alien? So you’re telling me David Fincher directed this video.

This video is dark. Have you ever seen it? Come on, you believe? Because I got something to say about it and it got something like this, like this. It’s like, she’s like a boss above all these men who are like, working like our core labor. Yep. And she, it’s all very dark and like black and you know, like, it’s not, it’s not like scary.

It’s just kind of a darker reality at that point. And what’s the one that I think Lady, I love Lady Gaga, but I feel like she stole, uh, this Madonna song for one of her own, uh, born This Way. I think that’s it. Let’s find out. Was that born this way? Yeah, I think [00:38:00] that’s it. Can you imagine to gravitate instantly?

Mama told me when I was young, we’re almost superstars

A

nothing. I do not hear that the way other people do. I get it, but I don’t hear it as much. Alright, so let’s just agree to disagree and I’m not trying to like protect Lady Gaga, I just don’t hear it as well.

Madonna anyways. All right. Um, keep going. So, um, do you, I wanted to just really quickly share his other films. Sure, go ahead. Um, so David Venture did Fight Club, seen it. Um, he predicted that, uh, it would be misunderstood, that people would think it was just a violent movie and not satire the whole purpose of the [00:39:00] book.

And, um. The movie was to was a critique. Yeah. Not an endorsement of toxic masculinity. Yeah. Um, in the movie Fight Club, the, the Starbucks cups are totally deliberate. I thought that was interesting. Kind of like a commentary, like every scene has a Starbucks cup. Oh, really? Yeah. Um, he also did the movie Zodiac in 2007.

Uh, it sounds like he was pretty obsessed with this movie. Um, it’s, I actually wrote down that Jill and Hall actually got frustrated and walked off set once, um, uh, let’s see. Social Network, which is my favorite Fincher movie, 2010. Um, you know, there’s a lot of lore about the opening scene of the social network, Jesse Eisenberg and Rooney, uh, Mara, that, that, that dialogue, they did it 99 times, if not more crazy.

Again, that involved Aaron Sorkin and his writing and that they were timing it and that it had to be like perfect timing. Um, and then he also, Fincher did Gone Girl, which is another one of, I loved the book. I really liked the movie too. Um, it was just interesting timing with [00:40:00] Ben Affleck and everything.

Um, gone Girl. Uh, and then seven. So seven was earlier than these, but those are like, if you’re kind of like, what’s the FINRA aesthetic? That’s what, it’s all of those movies. Yeah. So go ahead. Uh, new Line. Cinema Executives originally balked at the film’s ending, but Brad Pitt apparently refused to make the film if the ending was changed.

Yes. It’s kind of cool. Yeah, I think they showed it with the last scene being him shooting. Oh yeah. Yeah. And that was it. And then it faded to black. Right. And people did not like it. Right. And then they, so they ended up having him in the cop car and he’s going to jail for, and the, the Morgan Freeman narrative.

Yeah. Over, or narrator. Maybe we’ll play that. Uh, when Mills and Somerset go to Wild Bill’s leather store looking for information about John Doe, the clerk says that Doe had a limp behind them outside the store. A man limping is shown watching the detectives and he’s standing in the window with his umbrella just looking at them pretty.

Like, this was the first time I was really like, oh, there he is. Pretty creepy. Like I knew ’cause John Doe was actually in a few scenes. Yeah. [00:41:00] Um, before you know who John Doe is. Yeah. Uh, all of John doe’s books were real books written for the film. They took two months to complete and cost $15,000.

According to Morgan Freeman. Two months is about the time it would take the police to read all the books, whatever. Uh, David Fincher wanted the credits to look like a killer had written them. Yeah. Perfect. Good job you did that. For the gluttony scene, seven crates of cockroaches were released on the set and poured on Bob Mack.

Something had to be put in Mack’s ears and nose to stop the cockroaches from crawling in. It didn’t stop them from crawling into his underwear. Okay. I cannot deal with that, any of that. David Pitcher said on the DVD doc d uh, commentary that he felt bad for the actor who had to wear all the hot, heavy gluttony prosthetics.

So to compensate, he made him well endowed. That was nice. So there’s a part where he’s on the table. Yeah, I know exactly the scene and his penis is showing and apparently he has a big penis. I don’t remember that part, but Lovely. Uh, and lastly, the diner that Somerset and Tracy met is the same diner that Denzel and Ethan Haw Ethan Hawk met in training [00:42:00] day.

Training day. I thought they were gonna say like, heat. Nope. Um, okay. That’s what I got. That makes sense. I, uh, so a few other things. Uh, Brad Pitt was actually injured in that scene where they’re chasing John Doe. Yeah. So they wrote it into the movie. That’s why he has the cast. Yep. They’re like, just have the cast, you know, write it in.

Um, obviously it rains every single day in this movie, intentionally. As we already said, the city has no name. Um, the interesting, um, the, there’s no music in the final scene. Yeah. It’s almost like you don’t need any persuasion to feel the way you do. Right. Um, let’s see, the, so one of the best random facts is in the sloth scene.

Yeah. So the sloth scene is pretty brutal. Um, where they basically, there’s this guy that they think that, so it’s kind of, you gotta trace it back. There’s this thing that during the, um, the scene of greed. [00:43:00] Behind the, one of the paintings, the artwork, they are able to find in fingerprint dust. This is all like, how did they do this?

But whatever that it says, help me. Yeah. But it’s not the fingerprints it that make out help me are not the guy, the greed guy that died. So they get, they figure out who the fingerprints belong to and they belong to some guy who’s also very depraved, who is a criminal in the city. And they’re like, okay, he’s the one who did it.

Yeah. Okay. So they find out where he lives, they get to his house and it turns out that the real John Doe the real killer, has been starving this guy for a year. For a year. Yeah. Like he tied him down and has been starving him. Yeah. It’s so, so depraved. And so when you walk in, like all of these, like, um, air fresheners.

That’s right. New car smell. They want the new car smell in the apartment. I mean, come on. But the, the random fact about it is that all the detectives are kind of like looking at him shining flashlights on him, [00:44:00] and it just, he looks like a dummy, like a, like a, like a doll. And then all of a sudden the actor breathes and no, none of the actors knew that that was gonna happen.

Yeah. So they all freaked out. So that scene is real. Yeah. Um, and they said, then there’s all this gross stuff after that where when he gets to the hospital, they say his brain is mush. He chewed off his tongue. Just awful. See, those are the scenes that I’m like, no, thank you. Yeah. Crossword puzzle time. Um, but why those scenes are important, you know, at least to get the detective work part is each scene connects them to the next thing.

Sure. You know, you have to get the detective work. Um, and then obvi, the last thing is just seven. The, you know, the title, it’s actually se the number. Seven EN. Yeah, I think that’s cool. Yeah, that’s kind of cool. Yeah. Okay. Uh, all right. Another quote, I don’t even know which one this is. We’ll find out. This guy’s methodical acting [00:45:00] worst of all patient.

He’s a nut bag. That’s it. Just because of the fucker’s. Got a library card. Doesn’t make him Yoda. Yeah. There you go. That was the Brad Pitt thing that I was talking about. Gi nut. He nut bag. That’s right. He’s, that’s just so let’s do, let’s do one more. Okay. What do you got? Dead dog. I didn’t do that, John.

It’s kind of funny. John Dog was like, don’t put that on me. I didn’t kill the dog. Um, so WTF over there, boy, that escalated quickly. I mean, that really got outta hand fast. It jumped up a notch. It did, didn’t it? Um. We already kind of talked a little bit about this, but the, the journals that the guy that somebody, they paid somebody to write those journals and it took however long.

I think there’s another way of [00:46:00] doing it. WTF sweetie, they’re trying to get the, you know, like the realism and then just they and I, this isn’t really WTF, but just, uh, I think they were smart. It’s such a dark movie and, which is kind of interesting because the last scene is in bright sunlight, isn in light.

Mm-hmm. And all of a sudden you feel differently like, oh, well is it gonna be okay? Maybe we’re gonna turn around here a little bit. Maybe Mills is gonna be able to go have a babies with Tracy and they ride off from the sunset. And turns out that’s not what happens. There is never any point in that movie when you think that’s gonna happen.

That’s true. Uh, that’s what I got. So I’m gonna speak of Tracy and WTF. I think it’s interesting or you know, that first of all, and again, it was the nineties, it was a different time. Um, but um, I can hear you drinking babe. That smoothie in my ears. Not in my ears. Yes. And remember, smoothie is not good for podcast.

Gross. I got it. I’m on it. Okay. So first of all, Tracy never wanted to move to this city. She did not. And [00:47:00] so that’s made very clear and even Mills is not sure why he’s there. Yeah. Like there’s like question, like, he obviously wants to move up the ladder or prove himself, but there didn’t seem to be a marital agreement on this.

I mean, there’s still very in love and there doesn’t seem to be anger, but she’s very unhappy in this city. They have an awful apartment that shakes, you know, from the subway and they have four dogs. They’re like three dogs in a room. I thought it was two big, two big dogs, but it’s more than two. Is it really?

It might just be three. Yeah. Um, and those are like, they’re children, you know, air quotes, um, they, he’s like, oh, are the kids, how are the kids? Or whatever. Yeah. He’s like, oh, they’re in there. Um, and she. When, you know, she figures out she’s pregnant or whatever, and she calls William. Mm-hmm. William is Somerset to tell him.

And she’s like, it’s just ’cause I know no one else in the city and I kind of get it. But like, call your friends. Yeah. Like, why are you taking your husband’s partner Right. To go have this conversation. Um, [00:48:00] and she’s like, I used to teach fifth grade, or I used to be a teacher. And he’s like, why don’t you teach more?

You know, do something. And she’s like, I don’t know. And she’s like, why don’t, he’s like, why don’t you talk to David about this? That’s Mills. And she’s like, I don’t wanna be a burden. I’m like, oh girl. Yeah. Come on, come on. This is our lives. You wanna hear a little Tracy and Sure.

Can be a hard place. I don’t know why asks you to come. Why don’t you talk to about it? Tell her how you feel. I can’t, you know, I can’t be a burden. Yeah. Especially now look at used to things, you know, harder. I think I just, I wanted to talk to someone who’s lived here for a long time and coming upstate, you know, that’s a completely different [00:49:00] environment

to David, tell you that I teach fifth grade. All right. So whatever. And she says upstate, which makes you think New York. New York. I, I just al even though they don’t say it. And I think they, they like the fact that they don’t say it. It’s, it’s New York. It’s gotta be. So, you know, again, I know this was the nineties, it was a different time.

I was probably very similar. Gwyneth Paltrow is only a few years older than me, so I was probably very similar to her in my mindset. But anyone listening to this. Who’s, you know, in 2025, it’s not a burden to share how you feel about what you want, sweetie, are you rolling in the deep right now? Well, I am because that whole scene bugged me and to boot.

She’s pregnant. I know. And she’s debating whether or not to keep the baby because of where they are in life. Yeah. And or I think she is. I mean, it just sounds like it from the conversation. Yeah, because Morgan Freeman shares his experience. I don’t think she, I just think she was confused about what to do.

She obviously hadn’t told David yet. Um, I’m going to just really quickly go into her [00:50:00] hidden gems if you’re okay with that. So be Joel. When I walk in the room, I can still make the whole, uh, my hidden gem in this movie is Gwen. Oh, I, I think she does a really good job acting. I don’t think they give her much to do.

No. And a lot of sleeping scenes. I’m, she’s always sleeping. I’m fully engaged with, uh, her performance. I think that she doesn’t overact, but she hits you in the heart when, uh, when Morgan Freeman tells her to spoil her kid. Mm-hmm. If she chooses to have it. And she kinda like breaks down per a second. Um, and I like how she is taking, it’s funny ’cause you just, we kind of just described her as a passive wife, which she is yet, she’s like.

We are having your partner in our house tonight for dinner. It’s my favorite scene. Yeah. Right where she calls and he’s like, they’re in the office together. And Brad’s like, I don’t know, like, why are you calling or whatever. What are you talking about? I think he calls her a dingleberry and then she [00:51:00] says she wants to talk to Yeah.

Somerset. And she said, you’re coming over for dinner. I won’t take no for an answer. And then he’s like, okay. So I, and that, so you’re right. Like she’s not a complete, she’s not like a pat. It’s, it’s less about. The micro. Yeah. Which is, she’s speaking up or like doing what she needs to do. It’s the bigger version of the decision to move there and all of that kinda stuff.

It’s a movie, right? I don’t, I don’t mean to pick it apart so much movie. No, it’s what we’re doing sweetie. We pick apart movies. We are, but it’s, and I agree with you. I think Gwyneth Paltrow is a very good actress. Yeah. And not just in this movie. No. In most things. I think she’s, um, very good and she’s actually, she’s stepped away from acting for almost a decade besides Iron Man stuff.

Mm-hmm. And, um, and Avengers and she is going to be in a movie this year with Timothy Schlamme all. Um, so she’s back. Alright, we’re gonna do another quote real quick. Uh, should I do my hidden gem? Sure. Do your, oh, you got one? Good. Well, my hidden gem, it’s actually, we kind of already said it, it’s just about the fact that John Doe is in all these scenes.

[00:52:00] Um, but the scene that John Doe is most present in is after one of the murders. Um. When Brad Pitt and Somerset are coming down the stairs, a photographer comes up and takes their picture and Brad Pitt kind of like swats at him. Like, you know, get outta here. And then Brad Pitt actually says, how did they, how did they get this information so fast?

Like, how did they get to the crime scene so fast? And that was John Doe, because when they go to John doe’s house a picture in the tub is of, um, mills. Yeah. You know, he took a picture of him. So I just thought, well, and again, just good creepy stuff. And just to build on that, so Brad Pitt’s, like, how do they find out so quickly about these?

And then Morgan Freeman’s, like, they pay police, there’s people that pay police for information, and that in the end is how John Doe finds out where Mills lives. He pays another Tracy, another police officer about how to get to Tracy. Oh, awful. Yeah. And then interestingly again, because we have to see all these sides.[00:53:00]

When Brad Pitt is so pissed that John Doe gets away, they know where he lives and Somerset’s like, we have to go get a warrant. Yeah. To go in there. And Brad Pitt’s like, you know, they fight and he’s like, no, I’m gonna kick the door down. Yeah. Because once you kick the door down, you’ve crossed a line where you have no, what’s it called?

Like no reason. Yeah. To break in there. Probable cause. Probable cause. But then they pay a woman to lie for them. Mm-hmm. To like Brad Pitt does to say. It’s so obvious too. Yeah. I mean, she’s like, can barely Yeah. You know, and he’s like, go eat. Yeah. Anyway, so it’s just showing you a lot of sides of people obviously.

It’s very clear who’s good and bad. Yeah. I mean, I’m not saying that. Brad Pitt’s bad. I’m saying that it’s just an interesting paying people off kind of thing. Um, kind of reminded me and uh, this is a dated movie, but it’s such a, a typical movie dynamic between the older wise cop Uhhuh and the younger rambunctious cop.

And the only other example I can come up with, and [00:54:00] I’m sure there’s dozens of them, is in colors. You got Robert Duval and Sean Penn and Training Day. Training day. Mm-hmm. Very good. What, what is, can you think of any others? Um, let’s see. Older cop, I mean, uh, um, 48 hours. Uh, Axel Foley is not a cop though. No.

Not Beverly’s Cop. Or, um, 48 hours. Um, Reggie Hammond is not a cop, but he is doing cop work. Yes, that’s true. With Nick Nolte. Yeah. Um. Let’s see, what are Buddy cop movies? Uh, Crockett and Tubs, but there’s not an older one. Yeah. And Running Scared. They’re both about the same age. No, they’re, yeah, they’re gonna open up their bar in Jamaica.

There you go. Or no? Yeah. But they’re from Chicago, right? Yes. Um, but yes, they’re gonna open up their bar. Um, 20 Bi Buddy Cop. Oh, uh, lethal Weapon. Lethal Weapon. There you go. 48 hours. Uh, 7 21 Jump Street. Did you ever see that? The TV show? Yes. Never the movie. Uh, rush Hour. Never saw that. Bad Boys never saw that.

Beverly [00:55:00] Hills Cop Bad Boys. You’ve seen Will Smith. I’ve never seen it. Oh, okay. Uh, men In Black never really got into that. I did like the First Men in Black Point Break. There you go. Yeah. Bodhi. And you’re gonna spin off this Planet guy. What’s his name? Um, Gary Busey. Busey, uh, tango and Cash. Yeah. I liked Tango and Cash.

I was a fan. It was All right. It’s such a cheesy movie. You know what it’s, but it’s a, it was on TBS and everything all the time. And Rocky got smart. He was like wearing suspenders and smart glasses. Yeah. And he was like an investor. I just like Kurt Russell. Yeah. Uh, who doesn’t like anybody? Who doesn’t like Kurt Russell?

Just stop it. Yeah. He’s in that Jeff Bridges area for me. Like where? Just everything they did, I think. And he loves his girlfriend ’cause they’re not married. His, you mean Goldie Haunt? Yeah. Yes. That is his girlfriend. Right? I would say life partner. Oh, girlfriends. I mean, they’re like in their eighties, his woman friend.

His woman friend. Or maybe they’re not in their eighties, but they’re older. There’s no way they’re there. Know some [00:56:00] people, some people are like, I know. We just assume everybody’s in their eighties now because we’re in her fifties. She’s gotta be like at least 10 years older than us. I just put it Boldy, Goldie, Goldie ha boldy ha Goldie.

While you do that. Yes. I’m going to just pull up another clip. She’s 79. Oh my God. You were so close to being right, sweetie. I know, but not, can you imagine Goldie ha is 79. No. How old are we? That’s so crazy. I know. Goldie Hawn is 79. I know Kurt Russell is younger than Goldie. Ha. I and Goldie ha. Probably looks fantastic.

She does. I mean, he’s 79-year-old. He’s 79. Yeah. That’s crazy. Um, all right. I don’t know what, uh, so I think we’re going into rolling in the deep. First we’re gonna listen to another quote. Okay. Calm down. I seem to remember us knocking on your door. Oh, that’s right. And I seem to remember breaking your face.

I mean, he does. He could have killed him. He has a gun to his head for a long time. I know, I know. But that’s not, that wasn’t his game. He wanted to pull off the best. He’s [00:57:00] like, they’re gonna talk about me for years. I sure did. Are we gonna roll in the deep uh, yeah.

Um, I wonder if I have anything for rolling in the deep. Okay.

Nothing other than, you know what I’m gonna share has very little value ’cause we’ve already talked about it. Um, so what do you have? Are you sure? Yeah, go ahead. Okay. So I wanna bring up a book that I read in 2023 that’s still really important to me, called On Our Best Behavior, the Seven Deadly Sins, and The Price Women Paid To Be Good by Elise Sloan.

Um, she is, ironically, she used to be the, um, Sadie, the Goop. She used to work at Goop as like the executive director. She hasn’t worked there since I think 2020. But she is a writer, she’s a ghost writer. She, she’s like, helped Richard Roar with books, Phil Stutz with books. Like she’s really in that world.

Um, and, but this [00:58:00] was her book and she did all this research on the seven Deadly Sins and how they really, I mean, I’m paraphrasing, you have to, you know, go into all the history. There’s like a chapter where she actually says at the beginning, if you don’t wanna read this chapter because it’s so dense mm-hmm.

You don’t have to. Right. But this is all the history of how this came to be. And first of all, the seven deadly sins are not in the Bible. Oh, okay. Okay. That’s weird. So they were created later, and for the most part, they were created by a man who, oh, what was his name? He was also, he also did something else significant in the world of Christianity, but he, um, they were written and they were mostly used against women.

Okay. So imagine that. Yeah. So they were mostly used to keep women in their place and, and I’m not saying they didn’t affect men or, but, you know, but there was a sense of control with them that it has become pretty pervasive in our culture, that women are more affected by these. This sense of we have to be good.

And, [00:59:00] you know, um, you know, women are not supposed to talk about money. They’re not supposed to be greedy, they’re not supposed to be ambitious. They’re not supposed to, you know, be lustful or sexual or use their bodies. They’re not supposed to be vain. They’re supposed to like, not care about that, but actually really care about it.

Um, you know, it’s, it’s really tends to be more, you know, of an issue for women historically. And now it did, it did evolve. It started with some guy named Ev Eve Pontus in the fourth century, and he did something else. What else did he do? He’s a Christian monk. It was about 375 ad. He wrote a letter describing these eight tempting thoughts, demons.

And then Pope Gregory the first, wait, and he, so you just said these eight things, the seven deadly sins. But what he decided to take out was sad. Oh, really? Sadness. Yeah. Mm-hmm. You know what I think about that? Mm-hmm. I think about.

Check it out. We gotta create some space for sadness. Come on, dude. Right. And then good old Pope Gregory in the sixth century. There’s [01:00:00] something I, something I love about religious history. I don’t know why, you know, why, why? Because it helps you sort through all these things that we believe to be true.

Mm-hmm. With, I, I feel like I’ve said this so many times on this podcast, but if you understand the history of theology, you won’t be so strapped by religion. And when I say that I am a spiritual person, I have no issue, like with the, a belief in God or having a spiritual nature. But a lot of religion is about control and money and greed.

Well, sweetie, Pope Gregory in the sixth century, so this kind of doubles double down, doubles down on what we just said, seven deadly sins were first enumerated in the sixth century by St. Gregory, the Great who reigned his pope for whatever Uhhuh. Pope Gregory reduced the list to seven items, folding vain glory into pride.

Okay. Whatever that is. And edia into sadness and adding envy, whatever that means. Okay. So they added envy, edia. I don’t even know what that word [01:01:00] means. I don’t know. Um, and then St. Thomas Aquinas in the 13th century, he decided to replace sadness with sloth. Oh. So they got shifted around. A bunch of dudes are like, you know what?

I don’t know what I’m doing today. I’m gonna switch it from. Sadness over the slot. That’s what I’m gonna do today because that serves my interest at this point in time. And that’s kind of my point, is so much was about control. And so like, because Mary Magdalene and, you know, other women were around and had, you know, connection to Jesus and connection to disciples and connection in the big picture, but all of their stories were removed.

Removed. Yeah. And so we, we have this belief system that isn’t based in. We don’t have an understanding of where all this came from, and so we accept it as fact. Mm-hmm. And we have arguments about things that, you know, if you understand the, the history of theology, you would have a completely different vision.

Yeah. Because the Bible can be very beautiful with its [01:02:00] stories and its mythology and its teachings, but taking words literally when they’ve been translated a million times and changed for the benefit of whoever is in charge at that time. Mm-hmm. These are things we have to, like, wider perspective, many things can be true Yeah.

At once. And that’s why I, I just think anybody who studies theology, because theology affects every aspect of our lives about why people do what they do, why they believe, what they believe, why wars are started, why people separate from each other, why we’re political parties. Like it’s a basis, it’s a foundational, um, sociological understanding.

Sure. And I, I do know some, but not. What I should know. Right. You know what I mean? I know the basics and I’ve read a lot of history, but I would’ve loved to have gotten myself a PhD. That’s right. Let’s do that. Let’s go back to school and get PhD. Put that on the list. Okay. Uh, are we ready for the next category?

Um, I’m not, I’m still enrolling in the deep [01:03:00] a little bit. Okay. Uh, keep rolling. So, uh, I’ll say, first of all, read that book that I just talked about, Elise Loon. I’m, I use that book a lot in women’s groups and such. Um, so just interesting that Somerset and Mills are like two different ways of seeing the world that Somerset, he knows too much ’cause he’s been around and he feels, he feels powerless and Mills feels everything and can’t handle it yet.

So he’s more like scrappy, like, let’s keep going. And so it’s like their dynamic is like the whole spine of the movie. Um, it’s a generational clash, obviously, um, because, you know, mills is more idealistic and Somerset is more weary, et cetera. Um. John Doe is a dark mirror for us. Like I said, I kind of wrote about him already and what I wrote last week on my substack.

Um, he’s an embodiment of moral obsession gone wrong. Yeah. Like, you know, he’s believing he’s doing something good for the world. He really believes this. Um, just like Thanos, like you said earlier. Exactly. He wants to expose sin, [01:04:00] but then in doing that he becomes the most sinful person of all. You know what I mean?

So, um, the seven deadly sins as modern parables. Um, the crimes. Aren’t in this movie, at least aren’t about religion, it’s about human weakness, magnified by our modern life. So gluttony is like, you know, consumption or addiction. Greed is the rod of capitalism. Sloth is an emotional numbness. ’cause the sloth guy that he kills is a guy who’s also killing people.

Yeah. Um, lust, the exploitation of desire. Um, like I said, I don’t watch that scene even though they don’t really show you. You get the gist of what happened and, um, it’s awful. And um, and you know, it’s interesting ’cause I’m like, and of course a woman is blamed Sure. But the men, there’s men who are also involved in that.

Um, and then pride is image over substance. That’s a really interesting one. A woman who’s given a choice to either call for help or to take pills. Mm-hmm. Um, and envy and wrath, jealousy and retribution. [01:05:00] Um, and so the message really is that sin isn’t ancient. You know, it’s everywhere. It’s disguised in our everyday behavior.

And that was kinda the point of Elise Loan’s book is the seven Deadly Sids still live inside of us. We still like Todd, you, I would say if you were to go through the book the way I have, you would struggle with sloth. Like you have a hard time, you have a belief system. Stop eating when I’m full. No, sloth is, is like being chill and relaxing, you know, like, like a sloth.

For sure. You, that is the area where you believe, I would hate that. Exactly. There is something in you that you’re like doing, doing, doing and having a schedule is what makes me a worthy person. Yeah, for sure. That’s definitely my baggage. Um, I like when I, it’s funny I didn’t even think about sloth the animal.

Yeah. I thought of, I just thought of sloth as somebody who overindulges, um, um, I th [01:06:00] overindulges would be greed, wouldn’t it? But why was that big guy sloth? He wasn’t, he was gluttony. Oh, gluttony. I’m thinking of, okay. Yeah. I’m sloth that up. Was the, the guy in bed who had been dying Got it. For a year. Got it.

Mm-hmm. Sloth. All right. Yeah. Sloth. I would, yeah. I need to keep moving. Yeah. If I’m not moving, I’m not living. And so your cellular understanding, and again, I’m not saying it’s all based on the seven deadly sins, but there is a societal, um, belief system that you have taken in that is self-protective.

Mm-hmm. Like, I’m gonna stay busy and other people who aren’t busy are not as good as I am for sure. And so, and we, and, and again, this is not just about Todd, it’s anybody, you know what I mean? Like going through like, you know, women, you know, pride.[01:07:00]

You showed me, like that bumps me out. Tell me about it. Like, you know, what are you doing? Stop it. And maybe it’ll release a little bit over time. I don’t know. But I’m like, what are you doing? So

the box is a metaphor. It’s in the box. It’s in the box, it literal and symbolic. It’s when idealism dies for mills. Um, and it’s the idea that even good.[01:08:00]

Forget what we’re gonna talk about. Okay. So the best quote, um, of the movie, I think is the final quote, um, which again is in my substack. I use that as my last paragraph. You know.

Bad things. Mills has seen a lot of bad things and a lot of bad things happen, but it’s still worth fighting for. Yeah. So, um, you know, the world is sick and, but, but hope even if it’s really fragile, is resistant and or has, you know, or not resistant, hope is persistent. Better word. Hope is a good [01:09:00] thing.

Maybe the best of things. Maybe the best of things. And Andy Dra um, reminds us, I’m gonna play a few more. Speaking of quotes, a few more quotes. And I did not vet this, but I think this is kind of a funny one. Okay. Hold on. That’s not even my desk, sweetie. Next time. That’s, it’s not even my desk. I know exactly when that happens.

It’s so funny. Um, like why is he answering the phone then? That’s the police captain. He’s annoyed that the phone’s ringing and he answers to say this is not, but that’s the thing. He’s not at his desk. I know why I, I know exactly when that happens. Uh, and then here’s, I dunno what this is. You’re no Messiah.

You’re a, you’re a movie of the week. You’re a fucking T-shirt at best. Ernest Hemingway once wrote, there we go. Here it is. The world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part. Morgan Freeman might say, better than me, says, I envy your [01:10:00] normal life. Put your gun down, baby. Seems that envy is my son.

No. What’s in the box? What’s in the fucking box? All. Do you think maybe at first he thought maybe it was one of his dogs or something? I think that was like, do you think he could even like conceptualize? No. Like no. And how can you, and he doesn’t really even know what’s in the box, but John Doe keeps talking about, I feel like we should just, because Brad Pitt never looks in that box.

No, he does not. He allows Morgan Freeman to kind of tell him what’s happening, but he doesn’t tell him after you’d left. I tried to play husband. I tried to taste the life of a simple man. It didn’t work out, so I took a souvenir. Ugh. Her pretty head. Oh, so he does,[01:11:00]

we gotta let the scene run. What the fuck’s she talking about? Gimme your gun. Go on over there. What’s going on over there? Put the gun down. That story. You with a box. What was in the box? ’cause I envy your normal life. Put the gun down baby. It seems that envy is my sin. What’s in the box? Gun? What’s in the fucking box?

Say a gun. Just you. You liar. What wats you? We want you to shoot him.

Oh, you tell me. You tell me too much. Too much for me. All right. Um, obviously I did not listen to that last scene this time. Yeah, I did my crossword puzzle. ’cause I didn’t realize he actually told him. Told him. Yeah. Um, but obviously he knows. And do you know what I bought this year for? ’cause I’m already doing Christmas shopping ’cause I just start in October ’cause it just helps me.

Yep. I bought wrapping paper that has bread Pitt on it and it says what’s in the box. I really did. I’m not even joking. It’s really funny. [01:12:00] I know. It’s kind of, is it poor taste? No, it’s a fictional movie. You’re fine. Okay. I mean, when I, whenever I think of, uh, Jesus Rising from the dead, sweetie, I think of a person’s head in a box wrapping paper from seven.

Yes. It’s just a pic. It’s not him sad. Yeah. It’s just Brad Pitt and it says What’s in the box. Yeah. So I thought it’d be interesting. It’s my pop culture humor. Let’s head on over here. Okay.

Nobody puts Baby Me in the corner. All right. Cringe or classic? What do you got, babe? This is a classic venture movie. I mean, it’s a classic nineties movie. Um, the actors in it are some of our best. We didn’t even talk about Kevin Spacey and all of his trouble. Um, but we don’t need to. We don’t need to. Um, and it is it, I think it’s a classic movie.

I don’t know a lot of people who haven’t seen seven. Yeah. At least our age. Yeah. Um, [01:13:00] I go totally classic. Yeah. This is a, you know, except for the whole discovering the bodies parts of the movie, which I’m like, whatever. I know it’s disgusting and grotesque, but Well, and that’s what, that’s how you get people in, right?

Round two. Change a little bit. And change a little bit. Pretty pleasant.