[00:00:00]
Cathy: I dunno where I’m going.
Cathy: Know where I’ve been.
Todd: Knows where he is been. Sweetie. I
Cathy: know where I’ve been. Listen some songs of yesterday Hanging
Todd: on promises. How much of this are we gonna let go by here? Because it’s hard to stop.
Cathy: How about just when he sit, here I go again. Here I go again. Is
Todd: that good? That’s good. It’s real. Maybe.
Todd: Maybe I’ll have to kind of. Play it again with when the drums or the guitar kicks in. Yeah. David Coverdale, our man [00:01:00] from Whitesnake. Hey everybody. My name’s Todd Adams. I’m with Zen Pop Parenting two. Across for me is my sweetheart of a wife, uh, Kathy Kesani Adams a Zen Pop Parenting. We are, what’s the title of this podcast?
Cathy: So, first of all, Zen Pop Parenting is where Gen X pop culture meets real life reflection. Today we are talking about performative masculinity in terms of the eighties hairbands. Okay. So we like to talk about pop culture, but we wanna make sure we kind of mix it in with something relevant to why we are the way we are and why Gen X became who we are as people, parents, partners, and the hairbands were a really big part of our history, or at least mine.
Cathy: Yeah. Speak for yourself. They were not a part of Todd’s life. Um, I am quite excited for this episode because I’ve been asking Todd since the beginning, can we do a show on Hairbands? And he was kind of like,
Todd: let’s, let’s kick that one down the road. You’re like,
Cathy: let’s keep pushing that one off. Um, my two biggest fights [00:02:00] or my two biggest like desires in Zen pop parenting.
Cathy: One was Hairbands and one is boy bands. And, um, we’re getting one. Done today and I’m
Todd: really thrilled. And we’re doing the second one next week. Are we? Yeah, I think so. All right. So, and we could, we decided it’s such a, you know, kind of a fun topic to talk about that we were going to cram boy bands and hairbands into one and we’re like, there’s no way.
Todd: Yeah.
Cathy: Well think it’s
Todd: just not possible.
Cathy: That was me trying to accommodate you. Yeah. ’cause you were not excited about either of those topics. Well, and I
Todd: just didn’t wanna prep for both. Like gimme Right. Let me prep for one and then I’ll prep for another one because I had to do a lot of research because I don’t know that Kathy knew more about this topic before I started my research.
Todd: Correct. Um, about hair bands and about boy bands. But first quick promo things. One is Kathy is so
Cathy: number one. Okay. Subscribe to my Substack, Kathy Kanani Adams on Sub Substack. Go there. That’s where all my writing is. It’s, there is a free [00:03:00] version and then there’s a paid version. But just get in there and subscribe or follow.
Cathy: Number two, uh, our virtual community, it’s, there’s, it’s shifting a little bit in this way. We’re maintaining it, but we’re also gonna offer a Zen Parenting Radio podcast there. Yeah. So we’re kind of taking it up a notch where we’re gonna do Zen Parenting Radio. Old school. Mm-hmm. Like what we used to do, like talk about my writing or talk about the most recent research, whatever on.
Cathy: Team Zen, our virtual community. And so people can come in and listen live.
Todd: Yep. You can join
Cathy: us as we
Todd: record the podcast or you can
Cathy: listen afterwards or you can listen because everything we do in Team Zen becomes a podcast. So you will get it. So if you miss Zen Parenting Radio,
Todd: there’s a place to go. And some people might wanna say, Hey, I need help because my kid’s on her iPad too often.
Todd: And you can ask that question. Sure, you can ask
Cathy: questions. And then number three, we’re going into fall here. So restoring our Girls. My book, uh, that came out, uh, you know, earlier in the year. I’m gonna be talking about that more because my, uh, I’m starting to teach again at my university starting in two weeks.
Cathy: Todd, back [00:04:00] to the Grind. Fun. So I’m using my book this year. So anyway, let’s jump into Hairbands. Last last
Todd: thing, Jeremy Kraft Baldheaded Beauty. I wanna give him a shout out ’cause I haven’t done that lately. If you live in the Chicagoland area and you have a home improvement project, painting or remodeling, give him a call, 6 3 0 9 5 6 1800 or go to its website, avid avid co.net.
Todd: Yeah, thanks. Okay. All right, so we’re gonna set the scene. That’s the scene.
Todd: All right. Let’s go ahead and set. I have a, I
Cathy: Do you mind if I start? No, you go ahead ’cause you did some fun research. Hey, something that I wanna say to everybody while you’re listening is this is a list heavy episode, meaning Todd and I are gonna do like our favorite songs, the best of like, I love it when people do that on shows because then I get to hear a lot of my favorites.
Cathy: So I’m just telling you to pay attention.
Todd: When I first thought about this topic, you know, for some reason the first thing, you know, hairbands, we’re gonna talk about masculinity and all that in a second, but [00:05:00] I don’t even know exactly what a Hairband was. I just thought of Motley Crew, like Motley Crew is the hairband, but what’s the difference between hairbands and hair metal bands?
Todd: And I can tell you that I know you’ll be able to tell me. So I had to do a little research. Okay. And I did. And first I’m gonna quickly talk about the, the breeding ground for the Hairband. Sure. So this is pre-Hab band. Okay. Um, first there was something called Heavy Metal, and it started in 1970. That’s like Black Sabbath mm-hmm.
Todd: And all that stuff. Mm-hmm. The Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, iron Maiden. And they started in the seventies. Correct. I’m not sure if you could throw kiss in there or not. Yeah. As a heavy metal band.
Cathy: Yes, I think so. I mean, they had power ballads and stuff, but there was, they, they were in that grouping.
Todd: So we got Black Sabbath ju Priest.
Todd: I mean, in my research I watched this terrible documentary that VH one put in, and it was something about, you know, a documentary on hair metal. Okay. And it’s just like this, did they call it hair metal? I don’t remember. Okay. You’re just putting first together. This is a documentary [00:06:00] and Vince Neal just talks about taking drugs, having sex and playing guitar, or he didn’t even play guitar.
Todd: No, he’s, he played,
Cathy: no, he’s lead singer.
Todd: And that’s all it was. Uh, it just a colossal waste of my 45 minutes. ’cause it just said the same that it’s said that for 45. Okay. Um, so, uh, so I understand. Stood that, that this start, oh, they talked about David Bowie was kind of, uh, the whole idea of feminization guys looking, you know, putting makeup on.
Todd: Like David Bowie was somebody who did that before all this, right? Correct. But can I like Sure, go ahead.
Cathy: Solidify something. ’cause you’re getting, you’re going all over the place. Yeah. Is that, um, what I came into, like music wise, there was. The language was heavy metal. Yeah. Okay. Like you said, that was Iron Mane and Judas Priest and such.
Cathy: And then Hairbands wasn’t even a term yet. No. That came after. Correct. Okay. So we’re I’m in the seventies right now. Oh, exactly. And, and what I wanna say though is that for those of you, I have said to people, I used to like heavy metal when I was younger, and they [00:07:00] get in their mind like scary bands, you know what I mean?
Cathy: Like, um, what is it like, um, what it starts with a K like not, I can’t, but they get, they get these things, these bands in their minds that they think I’m like a real headbanger and I’m like, no, heavy metal used to mean something very different. So what does heavy metal mean to you?
Todd: Black Sabbath and all that?
Todd: No,
Cathy: heavy metal means to mean all these bands we used to call what are now called hair bands used to be called. Heavy metal. So, and it just meant, it meant power rock.
Todd: Right? So, as I understand it, in my research, heavy metal started in the seventies with these bands that we already mentioned. And then in the early eighties, Uhhuh 1980.
Todd: Yeah. One, um, come, um, come on Field, the Noise Quiet Riot was the first one to have. ’cause this was an LA scene. It’s all about Sunset Boulevard. Right. And Quiet Riot was there, and Def Leppard was there. And then Poison showed up and all these bands that we’re about to talk about. And, uh, but Quiet Riot with Come On Field Noise was [00:08:00] the first one.
Todd: And I, I found out that some producer had an idea for this song. Like, this is a good song. I’m just gonna go give it to a band that I think can do it quiet. Right. Didn’t even wanna do it because they thought that song was stupid. And they spelled Come C-U-M-C-U-M. And then they realized, so the record producers at said, there’s money to be made here.
Todd: Sure. So then all of a sudden everybody becomes a hairband. So in the early eighties, uh, 1980, I, I actually have a, um. A timeline of it if I can pull up my correct thing. So while you’re pulling up the
Cathy: timeline, like a broad category for hard rock glam metal. Was called heavy metal. Yeah. Like, and so I might say something like, I love heavy metal and I meant poison.
Cathy: Yeah. So I’m just saying that because I think people who are younger, millennials or you know, maybe even people in our own generation who are purists, who have kind of like recategorized, we used to say heavy metal. Yeah.
Todd: [00:09:00] Okay. 1981. Too fast for love comes out. Okay. That’s Motley Crue. Okay. Um,
Cathy: 81. All right.
Cathy: 81.
Todd: Van Halen was in the seventies. Okay, so I’m calling Van Halen hair metal adjacent. Adjacent. Sure. Okay. So I don’t think Van Halen kind of did their own thing before it became a big scene. They like paved the way they were, they were a trailblazer.
Cathy: Well, and I would say their music definitely had the hard, you know, the hard rock sound, but it was David Lee Roth’s look and what he did on stage that people started mimicking in the Hairband era.
Todd: Yeah. Okay. So 1981 that comes out. Okay. And I just lost my space. So good for me. Uh, 1983, Def Leppard comes out with Pyromania Woo Boo. Uh, Motley Crewe. The next year, or no, 1983, comes out with Shout at the Devil. Sure. That’s the first one I remember. The Molly Crewe. Okay. 1984. Obviously Van Halen’s, 1984. You
Cathy: don’t remember Pyromania?
Todd: No. Like photograph, I mean, I’ve heard of those songs, but No. And Rock of Ages. Okay. Um, 1984 we got Van Halen, twisted Sister and Quiet Riot. [00:10:00] Okay. Come out with new albums. 1985, Motley Crewe comes back with Theater of Pain, which is probably the one that I, I remember I bought that tape. Sure. Um, and then we got Rat.
Todd: I don’t know. Wait, wait, wait. The way you just said that Yeah. Was very disparaging. No, no, no. Don’t interpret my, my Go. And then we got Rat. I, I’m just saying they haven’t showed up. They haven’t shown up. Got it. So they just showed up and then Dakin. Okay. Dakin was, I was not anything about. All right. And then 1986.
Todd: Okay. Slippery one. Wet. Yeah. Here we go. So is Bon Jovi, I feel like I’m getting ahead of myself, but they made it, they they transformed through the era.
Cathy: Yes, they did. In a way
Todd: that nobody else I don’t think did
Cathy: correct. Well, some, but, okay. Who do you think? Well, I, I mean, I would say Def Leppard. Mm-hmm. Did, um, and I think that we can, you know, people like kind of pulled away and did their own thing.
Cathy: And again, I listened to this music. So you from like an outsider who’s like watching, you’re like, well, if I didn’t know it really well, it didn’t exist, but it, it did. But let me [00:11:00] just say this. Um, de Bon Jovi was definitely a hairband. Yeah. Like anybody that’s like, no, they weren’t because they were better or whatever.
Cathy: They were the most popular. Yeah. But they fell into that genre for sure. Now, now they’ve done all sorts of different things. Right. That I don’t think people call them a hairband anymore. That’s not, and I feel
Todd: like we could do a whole podcast. And why did Bon Jovi make it through and nobody else did? Was it determination?
Todd: It was John being their quarterback. All right. So we got Bon Jovi shows up in 1986. Good for them. So happy. Good for them. And good for you,
Cathy: Marty. Good for you Marty. And that was like a, that album was insane. Like that was so much of high school for me. Yeah. And you, um, so I’ll do remember when stuff about Def Leppard in our next category, but yes.
Cathy: So keep going. 19. Your timeline. 1986.
Todd: Okay. Uh, along with Slippery One, wet Poison came out with Look with the cat Dragged in, and I think this is the first time we’re seeing Poison. Here we go. 1986. So [00:12:00] Poison showed up five years after Motley Crewe did their first album. Okay. 1987. We have hysteria. Is that the Poor Some Sugar on Me?
Todd: One? Correct. That is Def Leppard’s album called Hysteria. And we’re gonna talk a little, and then Whitesnake, uh, self-titled album Uhhuh called White Stake came out in 1987. You know what else came out in 1987? What? Um, appetite for Destruction. GNRI know it came out a lot earlier than people think. And this is what I found out.
Todd: Okay, let do it. Everybody thinks that Kurt Cobain and Nand and smells like Teen Spirit destroyed. Uh, the glam rock. Okay. Or what do we wanna call this?
Cathy: Let’s, for, let’s say this, let’s say hairbands with the knowledge that we used to call it heavy metal. Okay. But we’re gonna stick with what the mainstream calls them.
Cathy: Okay.
Todd: So everybody thinks that Kurt by himself destroyed hairbands. It turns out, in my judgment, upon reflection and researching it, um, when GNR came out
Cathy: mm-hmm.
Todd: This is where you’re gonna get mad at me. Oh boy. The depth of the music, [00:13:00] um, Def Leppard poison. It was good, it was catchy, but I feel like GNR brought a deeper sense of musical talent.
Todd: To the show. Okay. And comparatively speaking, they were 10 steps ahead of everybody else, even though they looked the same. Mm-hmm. What do you think about that?
Cathy: Uh, I think that’s okay. I think they’re, I mean, slash is considered one of the best guitarists of all time. Yeah. So it’s hard to argue with that.
Cathy: Just like going into the seventies, Eddie Van Halen is considered one of the best musicians. So it’s, it’s hard to argue and say no, the musicianship of warrant was better. Yeah. Like, I’m not going to argue that. I think what I get into though, when we have these conversations is what you already said, which is what, when I was that age, what did I want to listen to?
Cathy: Yeah. Did I wanna listen to Mr. Brownstone? Mm-hmm. You know, I didn’t even, I don’t even know what that song’s about. I think it’s about heroin. Is it really? I believe so. Or did I wanna listen to, you know, talk dirty to me, which was fun, you know, and it was like, [00:14:00] or smoking in the boys’ room or, you know, whatever.
Cathy: We, it was more, it was lighter. And I get, and again, GNRI will say this, we did. We did a whole show about, um, you know, the emergence of grunge and how hairbands went away and, and what grunge what happened. But I will definitely say that GNR was the bridge, if not the catalyst. Right. I mean,
Todd: Janet, it’s amazing. Never really liked that song.
Cathy: Oh, come on. No,
Todd: listen, I’m not, I’m not. I am, I’m telling you, I didn’t really like that song.
Cathy: Okay. Um, that’s okay. Can I finish this album catalog? Sure. Please go. And
Todd: then I’m totally gonna turn it over to you, I promise. Sure. Just ’cause I feel like this is the only thing I get that’s like, let me have my moment, uh, 1988 open up and say, ah, by Poison.
Todd: Correct. Uh, I don’t know if this belongs on the list, but Skyscraper by David Lee Roth. What was on skyscraper? This must be just like living in, living in Paradise.
Cathy: I don’t know. I think David [00:15:00] Lee Roth, if we’re gonna talk about like Apex Mountain, which re Watchable always talks about like, when was their height?
Cathy: Um, he, that was just a Jigga low and all that kind of stuff. Well, I
Todd: think his high thing was, um, 1984 with Van Halen. Correct. You’re talking as a solo.
Cathy: Yeah. So I don’t know if that album, if Skyscraper wins,
Todd: I actually like that song and it was kind of a, I. He’s been gyrating a lot. Oh wait, David Lee
Cathy: Roth is gyrating.
Todd: A lot of gyrating. Uh, have you
Cathy: seen him lately?
Todd: Uh, I heard that he like 15 years ago. He is a paramedic, which is hilarious.
Cathy: There’s a few things. First of all, aging is natural and I don’t look at these guys who are now like, you know, 15 years, 20 years older than us and go, oh my God, they’re so old ’cause duh.
Cathy: Mm-hmm. That’s what aging is. But it’s really interesting. There’s a few videos I’ve sent you. Like last night I, I watched a quick click of David Lee Roth in concert because they still kind of, they try to move the same way. Remember the [00:16:00] Roger Daughtry thing? I I showed you where he was swinging the microphone in the hoo, like he does with the, well he used to fling it way up high in the air and now
Todd: he’s just
Cathy: kind of, sort of throwing it, but he’s kind of getting stuck on his wrist and stuff.
Cathy: Like he just can’t do it anymore
Todd: because he’s like 94 years old.
Cathy: Exactly. And that’s the thing is like, I am not saying so. That’s bad. I’m saying we just have to understand there’s a
Todd: reason why we look better when we’re younger. It’s because our body is younger
Cathy: and we move better and we’re, we’re not, our joints aren’t tired and all that.
Cathy: And these guys are like trying to do what they did in the height of their fame on stage and, and I Kudos.
Todd: Um, 1989 Home Stretch, uh, Dr. Feel Good. Great album, right? It’s one of my all time favorite songs. Uh, whites, snake, slip of the Tongue and White Lion, whoever they are. Big game. Okay, put on
Cathy: Wait by White Lion.
Cathy: Okay. And so you can, it’s called Wait, just put on the song. Wait. White Lion has plenty of songs. It’s called Wait. Yes. Okay. Um, I didn’t know that. Oh,
Todd: sweetie. Iss assuming I know Weight
Cathy: and Weight Life. Well, I [00:17:00] just, what I mean is, you know, their music.
Todd: I have no idea what the song is.
Cathy: This is huge. Senior high school
Todd: who you.
Cathy: Okay, that
Todd: is White Lion. Wait, so what else do you have to say? Um, 1990. Cherry Pie by Warrant, which was a huge song, right? Huge. Uh, whoever Warrant is, I mean, I know I’ve heard of them, but I don’t know. I can’t name a person in their band.
Cathy: Tanya and I are gonna keep from having fights
Todd: during this, uh, um, 1990 Slaughter. I’ve heard of them. Oh, for sure. No idea. They’re on my list of fame. Uh, two more years. 1991. Skid Row. Slave To the Grind. My favorite. Somebody, some band called Danger. Danger. No, didn’t know that band. Mr. Big.
Cathy: Yeah.
Todd: Okay.
Cathy: So you know a song by Mr.
Cathy: Big. Okay. It’s, uh, called Be With You. I’m the one who wants to be with you. Mm-hmm. Um, and I think you’ll know it because it kind of has a life post. Um, you know, post their era. [00:18:00] Okay. Let’s find out. Oh yeah, I get into this. It was starting to, so interesting take like, and I didn’t do research on this, but I’m just thinking about this.
Cathy: So Mr. Big came along, I was in college by the time this song came out, and then there was also a band called Extreme who did more than Words, you know? Yeah. I can get into this song. Okay. So what was happening is these guys who were like, still on the, like the, the, the tail end of the Hairband era were stripping down their music.
Cathy: Yeah. So like, do you remember Extreme More Than Words and the two guys sort of, yeah. Okay. So it was kind of like the same, their voices still had that like hair bandy kind of quality to it. Yeah. But the, it wasn’t so much like heavy rock. Yeah. It was more like, we still look this way, but we’re gonna show you our voices.
Todd: Yeah. Yeah. Um, okay, so that is it for my album Analog Thing. I, I wanna share one more thing with you. Okay. [00:19:00] Um, and it’s just the different types of metal, which I, I, I don’t pretend to be an under somebody who understands metal, but okay. We got heavy metal which started it Hair metal uhhuh, even though we’re calling it hairbands or Hairband and glam metal.
Todd: Something called thrash metal. Yeah. Which is Metallica Slayer Mega Death and Anthrax. I know all those bands. Yep. I didn’t know it was called Thrash metal then. Something called Death Metal. Yes. And that’s uh, like Death Cannibal Corpse and Morbid Angel. Never heard of that. So
Cathy: tho, when I say heavy metal to people, those are the ones they think I’m talking about.
Cathy: And I am not talking about death metal.
Todd: There’s something called black metal, which is, uh, mayhem. Dark Throne Emperor. Okay. Doom Metal. Okay. Candlemass Electric Wizard. Never heard of any of these. Power metal. Never heard of them. Now new metal I’ve heard of new metal is Corn Limp Bizkit and Lincoln Park.
Todd: Correct. And they were more
Cathy: millennial music. Yeah.
Todd: Right. So that’s what I got.
Cathy: Okay. So those are interesting categories and I kind of wanna put all the. [00:20:00] Dark and demon and destruction and murder all in the same category. I’m not quite sure why we had to put those, let’s just call it all, all death metal.
Cathy: Yeah. It’s all very defy and, um, scary. Yeah, though, ’cause that’s too much for me. Like when people are like, yeah. You know, like, and you can’t hear what they’re saying. Yeah. That’s, I’ve never connected to that. Um, mine was more, again, the lightness quality, the fun, the, but it is interesting because this show, we’re talking about performative masculinity and that is on purpose because there, there’s reasons why these bands became as big as they are.
Cathy: So it’s like what death metal was focusing on. They still had the hair and all the, like, the, the loud guitars, but it was a lot more violent. Yeah. Okay. And whereas hair bands were a much lighter mm-hmm. You know, it wasn’t, it was all about women. Yeah. To be clear and drinking. Yeah. So my categories that I wrote down were Heavy metal, which is Metallica, iron Maid and Slayer Hairband Glam Metal, [00:21:00] which is the eighties, like Poison Warrant, Cinderella, and then Hard Rock, which is like Aerosmith, guns N Roses, A CDC.
Cathy: Mm-hmm. That’s kind of the way I see it. Um, but I think that you could, people listening right now may have their own language, their own, how they learned it, who taught them. So it doesn’t really matter. I, well it does matter, but what I mean is as long as we know what we’re talking about right now. Yeah.
Cathy: Which is eighties hair bands.
Todd: Um, I need to play you just a clip of cannibal something or other, just so we can get an understanding of, of like what death metal is. What death metal is. Yeah. It
Cathy: kind of scares me.
Todd: Uh, let’s just hear. It
Cathy: basically sounds like what I just did. What? Like that drummer is gonna have like a stroke.
Todd: I gotta hear his.
Cathy: Oh my God, no. What if they had a headache that day? [00:22:00]
Todd: Exactly. Um, okay, so what do you got, babe?
Cathy: Okay. So I think you did a really good job. Oh, thank, like, kind of rounding all that up because I agree with you. I had all the same stuff about LA and the Sunset Strip scene. Um, van Halen, you know, quiet Riot, uh, Motley Crue Dakin.
Cathy: Um, so, but I wanna talk about like, um, this masculinity shift. Okay. Okay. So it was about amplified virility. Mm-hmm. Like, that’s not great word. Yeah. So everything was about men presenting as hypersexual alpha males, but then also borrowing from like, fashion. Mm-hmm. Like they were bringing in the, the, the female, they wouldn’t talk about it that way, but they brought in like makeup and everything from women.
Cathy: So it was an exaggeration of their toughness and they were kind of, you know, winking at us a little bit. Yeah. So. This is, I’m just gonna talk about just kind of the MTV era, because MTV is, as we know, we also did a show on MTV, it was the very first show we ever did, um, for Zen Pop parenting. And MTV [00:23:00] was all about image.
Cathy: Of course. And so these bands, they understood these hairbands that it was about image. Yes. They would have catchy songs that were on the radio that maybe we could all enjoy, or a power ballad we could slow dance to. But they had to look it. Yeah. You know, they had to look the part. And so, um, you know, the image was just as important as the sound, you know, excess, again, as we say all the time, ’cause we’re Gen Xers, Reagan era.
Cathy: Mm-hmm. Excess consumerism, more lights, more leather, more lip gloss, all that kind of stuff. So. Um, you know, that was 1983 to 1990, and then the 1991 to 1993, as you said, is when, you know, grunge came about. They would start, hairbands started to collapse. It was a tough time for your wife, Kathy. Yeah. Um, even though I did love what was coming in, I loved grunge and I understood why the transition was happening.
Cathy: Or, let me say it this way, I appreciated it. I liked the new music. Right. I just didn’t like the, um. [00:24:00] The like, okay. All of that sucked kind of thing because it was, it was less about, to your point, it was less about, because it was such great written music and it was more about, because it was such, such a part of my high school experience.
Cathy: Sure. So I think I kind of held on a little longer than most I might still be holding on. Um, and so basically what happened, the masculinity sh uh, shift went from like total bravado to a more raw vulnerability and, you know, not, you know, they were wearing their ripped jeans and their um, you know, their shirts, what do we call ’em?
Cathy: Flannel shirts. Yeah. And there was no makeup and they did have long hair, a lot of ’em, but it was just ’cause they were kind of dirty and not showering. Um, so anyway, it was a rebellion against all of that time. So, um, you know, I wanted to talk about the fact, like I kind of, again, I told you I was gonna give you lists.
Cathy: I wanna talk about the most notable. Gender bending artists that we’ve had over time. And I’m gonna give, I’m gonna talk about everyone. Okay. Like from the beginning. I’m only gonna give 10, but I’m gonna use every year that at least I’ve been [00:25:00] alive. Okay. The ones in my lifetime. So I’m gonna start with number 10.
Cathy: So why I am talking about gender bending artists is because I think that’s what’s interesting about hair bands is for as much as they were all about the excessive or the, you know, amplified virility, they really, a lot of ’em look like women.
Todd: Yeah. That’s so interesting. So it
Cathy: was, so that’s, it’s so interesting.
Cathy: Like, that’s why I love talking about this stuff because it’s like these balances and how all they talked about was sex, they were performing. Mm-hmm. Being a man while looking more like a woman. Yeah. It was just really interesting. So, um, I’m gonna start with number 10. Do you have a drum roll for me?
Todd: Uh, I do have a drum roll.
Todd: I don’t have the song,
Cathy: you don’t have to pull up the song. I’m just gonna tell you the people. Uh, drum roll please. Okay. Number 10 is more current Harry Styles. Okay. Okay. We, you and I have both been to his show. It’s a lot of wearing boas, a lot of, uh, you know, he’s usually wearing a full body suit, kind of, you know, Freddie Mercury style.
Cathy: Mm-hmm. Um, he kind of talks about, you know, he’s very open, he’s very fluid. Yeah, we’ll just say that. And that might [00:26:00] be a surprise to some people who’ve never seen him in concert or kind of know his, his vibe.
Cathy: Same as it. And then number nine, Janelle Monet. She is an artist who kind of, she, she’s fantastic. Grammy winning artist. Uh, so creative. But she wears a lot of tuxedos, tailored suits. She’s got a total gender fluid style. Um, number eight, hold on a little. Janelle Monet.
Todd: She’s more r and d top. She the one, uh, about the scientists who helped put Men on the Moon.
Todd: Hidden
Cathy: Figures. She’s
Todd: an
Cathy: actor, correct. Right. Okay. So she’s, that’s what I mean. She’s, she’s one of those deeply creative, innovative artists. Yeah. Who, but she, it, she’s, you know, very fluid. Yeah. Um, number eight, another easy one. Lady Gaga. Alright, so Lady Gaga. Total, she’s worn everything. So she’s done Jo, she’s done male drag, you know, she’s worn meat.
Cathy: She’s, you know, she hasn’t been everybody under the sun. Um, but again, [00:27:00] just gender bending.
Todd: Good. On your drama,
Cathy: let touch your hand. Number seven, not really my favorite person in the world, but Marilyn Manson. Um, heavy makeup corsets, horror goth drag mixed with aggressive masculinity. Um, we did a show, we did his Zen Parenting Radio show a while ago about Evan Rachel Woods, um, documentary called Phoenix Rising, about, um, how he abused her and assaulted her.
Cathy: Mm-hmm. And brainwashed her. Yeah. So you don’t need to play his music. No. Uh, number six, um, Annie Lennox. Mm-hmm. Uh, that was more eighties new pop wave Eurythmics, um, suits. Really short hair. Remember she had red crop hair. Mm-hmm. Um, androgynous, um, in a time when there was a lot of hyper feminine women. So.
Cathy: We gotta love Annie Lennox, number five, our guy, Freddie Mercury. Of course. Um, some people may put him first. I’m just kind of, it was hard to put this list [00:28:00] together ’cause like what does number one mean? Right. But he was theatrical, leotards, uh, flair. Um, his masculinity was, and, and I like this word, someone wrote in an article.
Cathy: It was elastic, it was biker leather, then valet tights. Like it was, he was all over the place. So we love Freddy.
Todd: If you ever want to get moved by a piece of music, watch them at, uh, live Aid. Sure. It’s known as like the, one of the best sets of
Cathy: Which song do you like? Oh, the, you just the whole set. The whole thing.
Cathy: Whole. Like
Todd: he owns that. Audience’s like whatever, 150,000 people there. And he has them just in his hand. In his hand.
Cathy: Well, it’s Radio Gaga that, you know. That’s really the one that brings everybody together. Thus, why Lady Gaga named herself, lady Gaga was because of that song. Uh, number Four Boy George.
Cathy: Mm-hmm. Our Guy, boy George. So Culture Club. He was the front man. I remember when Culture Club came out. I was in middle school, early eighties, and there was an uncertainty [00:29:00] initially whether he was a man or a woman. Oh
Todd: yeah. You know, do you remember that? I remember seeing it on tv and I’m like, they’re like something on the radio.
Todd: I was listening to Johnny B the next morning, like, oh, that boy George is a male. I’m like, no, no, no, no. He is female. Yes. Or she’s a female. And it was my first experience of
Cathy: that. Yes, exactly. So he did makeup, dresses, fluid presentation, brought, you know, gender non-conformity to us through MTV. Yeah. So that was kind of, you know, a lot of these people did, but he was very early and then he was very poppy and it wasn’t, you know, there was nothing about it that felt.
Cathy: Invasive. Yeah. Or you know, um, number three, Grace Jones. Um, Grace Jones. Grace the actress, disco Mae, 1970s. Okay. Um, you know, her hair, her suits, her body paint. Um, you know, we love her and I, people respect her music and they love her. You know what she sings about. But you know, boomerang, come on.
Todd: Yeah. She’s a boomerang.
Todd: She’s a
Cathy: boomerang. That’ss. Todd my favorite movie. So she’s so good. Okay. Number two.
Todd: Mm-hmm. [00:30:00]
Cathy: Prince, our guy, prince Lace, heels, eyeliner, crop tops. Um, he huge sexual dominance though. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Like, it was, he was so sexual. Um, but he, it was very strange because I remember feeling, ’cause this was middle school and I remember being like, I’m, he’s so attractive.
Cathy: But why? Like, it was like, it was, you know,
Todd: I remember being confused that all the girls thought he was hot. I’m like, oh, that, that’s not what hot looks like.
Cathy: Right. And that it be, it, it grew us up, you know what I mean? We were kinda like, okay, he’s super hot and this is not, I was, you know, I grew up with a bunch of guys with baseball hats.
Cathy: He’s like five foot two, right? He’s, he’s, I don’t think he’s that short, is he? Uh, I’m gonna find out. I know he’s like tiny. He w he wore boots all the time, but he was hugely influential on Gen Xers. And then, um, number one is probably the most obvious, ’cause you already mentioned him. David Bowie, the gold standard for androgyny, Ziggy Stardust, um, you know, ma Beauty, uh, makeup costumes.
Cathy: And it was like [00:31:00] he made gender bending part of the art. Like, you know, there wasn’t, people talked about it, of course, but he fused fashion and it was just, he’s our, he’s the one who started it all, or at least in my generation, prince was five
Todd: foot
Cathy: two. Wow. Todd. Yeah. Um, so I think, I think, let me see. I think that’s pretty good for set the stage.
Cathy: So do you wanna go to remember when,
Todd: uh, remember when
Cathy: you couldn’t wait?
Todd: Uh, I’ll be quick. Okay. I’m just gonna name songs that impacted me. Sure. Let’s do it. Um, I remember being big into MTV and at the time MTV had a daily top 10. Okay. Yep. And Home Suite Home, like everybody kept calling in and voting for home, suite home every time. Eventually Mt. V had to say.
Todd: We’re wiping the whole slate clean because this isn’t helpful. We need to introduce new music. [00:32:00] So Home, sweet Home. The videos for, we’re not gonna Take It. I thought were really funny and awesome. Niemeyer from Animal House. Yeah. Yeah. The beginning and then I remember where I was when I heard Sweet Child of Mine.
Todd: I’m like, this is different and interesting. So, um. Yeah, I mean, I just like the really popular stuff. I didn’t get into it deep, uh, deep into anybody’s catalog like you did, sweetie.
Cathy: Well, and I’ll just do a, some of the remember wins because we have so many other opportunities to talk about the songs. But I will say, Todd and I started talking about this in the car on our way home on Sunday about that.
Cathy: My introduction to, again, the adjacent Hairband stuff was in fifth grade when my guy friends, um, introduced me to Running With the Devil by Van Halen. And they loved it, and they knew all the songs and they would always talk about ice cream Man. Um, and they would be like, you don’t understand what they’re talking about.
Cathy: And Ice Cream man. Mm-hmm. And I didn’t, yeah. In fifth grade, I knew all the words. I could sing it for you right now, but I didn’t understand it. Um, dedicated One little Lady. Yes. [00:33:00] And so anyway, then, you know, running with the Devil and all the songs on there and then diver down, you know, everything that, that came from my guy Friends Uhhuh, the whole, you know, van Halen thing.
Cathy: But you know, you’ve gotta think about music. You know, all of us now listening to this and. How it grows and changes over time. And there’s some people that never really get into music, but if you have those kind of influences early on or you have people who like, ’cause I not only had my guy friends who, you know, would share music with me, that’s how I learned about Led Zeppelin, everything.
Cathy: But I also had, like my sister was into really alternative new wave music and my brother-in-law was a DJ
Todd: Before Alternative was mainstream.
Cathy: Correct, exactly. And they would introduce me to music. Like we talked a couple weeks ago about the Ferris Bueller podcast. Uh, we talked about the dude in Ferris Bueller and how they all the music in that like Six Sig Sputnik and everything, Chris and Drew had already introduced me to.
Cathy: So it’s like you have all these people influencing you and then that kind of Yeah.
Todd: Well, you know, that’s just like, uh. [00:34:00] Your opinion, man.
Cathy: Exactly. And then you start to like build this like sense of, this is what I like, or I’m drawn to this or this is what this reminds me of. So in seventh grade, one of my most core memories is walking around with my friends.
Cathy: I had earphones on, it’s funny how I used to wear Walkman while with people, but I did. And I was listening to Rat. I was listening to Round and Round, which is one of my all time favorite songs. And we got In Trouble By the police
Todd: or listening to Rat?
Cathy: No. Oh, we were out too late and I was in a friend’s backyard and I shouldn’t, shouldn’t have been.
Cathy: I think we told our parents we were spending the night at other people’s houses and we weren’t. We were just walking around and it was boring In DeKalb. We had to do things like that. But I was listening to this when the, when the whole police thing came. So this song is such a rebellious song to me.
Cathy: Like, I just remember getting in trouble.
Todd: That’s a good, remember when
Cathy: it is. And this song has stayed on my playlist [00:35:00] up until now. Like I still
Todd: as well it should, sweetie. I know it’s round and round
Cathy: and I actually showed you not too long ago, maybe a month ago or something, the video, and Milton Burl is in the video.
Cathy: Why? I don’t know. That’s interesting. I don’t know why Milton Burl iss in the video, but he is, he’s the main character. Anyway, so that was rap. That was seventh grade. And then the biggest surgeons, uh, as we just discussed, was set. The scene was high school. Uh, sophomore year, junior year. Senior year. I did, I wanna go back just for a second.
Cathy: I did love, um. The first album by Def Leppard. I loved the song Photograph. I love what was the name of that album again? You said it already. Hysteria is Now. But anyway, pyromania Romania. Thank you. I loved Rock of Ages. I loved, uh, you know, pyromania. I loved that album, but I, it was just kind of a one-off, whereas once I was in high school I was like, okay, this is great.
Cathy: So.
Todd: What about when you convinced all your girlfriends to go back? Is that you’re
Cathy: just gonna tell that story? Let’s hear it. That. So, my remember win is that Def Leppard was such an important part of all of our [00:36:00] lives in high school, and I really want, this was my junior year and I really wanted to go to the, um, the concert, right?
Cathy: The Hysteria concert. And if you guys remember the videos pulling in MTV, that concert looked crazy. Mm-hmm. Like girls were on people’s shoulders and people were lifting up their shirts and the mu, you know, think of the Pour Some Sugar on Me video. Yeah, right. I was like, oh my God, I’m so, I think it was like an arena and they were in the middle.
Cathy: It was amazing. I’m like, I’m going to that show. Well, my parents were like, no, you’re not going to that show. Which was a heartbreak. Like, I couldn’t believe I wasn’t going to this show. Like it was, it was like someone had taken my dog or something. Mm-hmm. And I never had a dog. But if I had a dog, it would’ve felt that way.
Cathy: So it was devastating. So it was a hole in my heart. So what Todd is referring to is then when we were outta college and I was living in Chicago with my girlfriends, I found out Def Leppard was coming to Alpine Valley.
Todd: I know it was Tinley Park or
Cathy: Tinley Park. They were coming to Tinley Park. I’m sorry I [00:37:00] messed up.
Cathy: All these places, they’re coming to Tinley Park and anybody who’s been to Tinley Park knows that you’ve got like seats in front, but then you’ve got the whole lawn. Okay? And so I was like, we were poor. I was like making $16,000 a year. So I’m like, let’s just get seats on the grass. We have to go to Def Labate.
Cathy: I’m gonna fill this hole in my heart. Made my roommates come with me. And there was so nobody there that they closed off the grass section.
Cathy: Sorry. Death.
Todd: It, it was really heartbreaking. They would probably be able to put more in that stadium now than they did.
Cathy: They would fill that. That’s what’s so interesting is they came back, but that was when they were getting less cool. They were so not cool. People probably gonna Pearl Jam instead.
Cathy: Correct. And so they just think about this people, they closed off the lawn. Yeah. Like that was how few people were there. So anyway, that was that. And then so, um, then [00:38:00] I don’t, I was gonna go through all these songs, but I’m not going to, because I don’t want to step all over our lists, which are really fun list.
Cathy: So would you like to do our, can we best Power ballots.
Todd: Oh, best power ballots. Sure. Why don’t you wanna do that list? Do you wanna start or you,
Cathy: well, I kind of feel like you should start Okay. Because, okay. Mine have more of stories than yours. Yeah. I don’t have any stories. You wanna do yours 10 to one and then I’ll do mine 10 to one and I’ll tell you the ones that overlap.
Cathy: I don’t even know if I have
Todd: 10. I have a handful. Um, Todd couldn’t come up with 10. I’m just gonna go with my top. I wanna start at the top and work my way down until I get bored. Well, no, that’s not the way
Cathy: lists go. You start at the 10, you build up to number five. My list. Is that exciting though? Okay, go
Todd: ahead.
Todd: My number one is home suite Home. Okay. By Motley Crue. You like it? My number two, which is totally predictable. Every rose has its thorn. Sure. Um, and then, um, yeah, I just got a top two. That’s about it. [00:39:00] All these other ones, I’m like, oh God, it’s not even that good of a song. So, yeah. Okay. Those are the only two for me.
Todd: All right, well get ready. You ready
Cathy: to play some music?
Todd: I’m gonna do my best.
Cathy: Okay. These are the, my, my favorite. When I say they’re the best power ballads, I mean, to me, you guys know the whole Zen parenting thing. It’s not about everybody else. It’s what makes sense to you. Right? Okay. So if I get emails about You’re crazy, it’s like, no, this is my world, right?
Cathy: That I’m living in. So, number 10. Mm-hmm. It’s from, it’s really early in the world of, uh, power or of hairbands, and it’s the Scorpions and it’s a song called Still Loving You.
Todd: Still Loving You by the Scorps.
Cathy: And I used this song in a music game we played a long time ago about we, the question was, what song has a great slow build into like this great finale?
Cathy: And I chose Still Loving You because it’s such a great song and it has a great finale. And none of you guys voted for me.
Todd: Heck no. Okay. Sounds like a normal. [00:40:00] That’s usually what happens.
Cathy: Okay, so number nine. Uh, this is from 1988 by Cinderella. Mm-hmm. Um, don’t know what you got till it’s gone.
Todd: Uh, don’t know what you got.
Cathy: Yes. And so basically this song, they, Cinderella didn’t usually tone it down, so this song became really popular, but his voice is really straining.
Todd: Don’t know what you got till it’s going to be Paradise.
Cathy: Put up a parking lot. That is a different song. But that was my number nine. So my number eight is, is Steel Heart, which you mentioned, which never really became as popular as the other ones. Is that a song, A band? No, that’s a band. Okay. They had a song called Never Let You Go.
Cathy: And it was at the end of my senior year of high school and it was just very important. So I really loved this song.
Todd: Never heard of it. [00:41:00] Sounds great though, sweetie.
Cathy: Okay, thanks.
Todd: You’re welcome.
Cathy: Number seven. Okay. Now you, you don’t let me do these things, but I’m gonna do it anyway. Do it anyways. I have three Def Leppard songs in number seven, because I could not choose. Okay. So love Bites. Mm-hmm. Hysteria. Mm-hmm. And photograph.
Todd: So this is your top 13 instead of your top.
Cathy: Correct. But I just wanted to fit it in so you can just play love fights. I want,
Todd: okay, here’s my, hold on. I gotta come over here. You, you’re gonna be mad. This’s the part where sweetie gets mad. Um, what am I, what am I gonna get mad about? ’cause of this. Boy, it’s hot.
Todd: This is hot. Brooklyn looks like Africa. Hot Tarzan couldn’t take this kind of hot. All def Leopard songs sound the same.
Cathy: They have a similar vibe, but the only two songs that sound exactly the same are women and Rocket, [00:42:00] because they go Women, women and rocket goes Rocket. Rocket, right? They are literally the same.
Cathy: But
Cathy: are you gonna
Cathy: women a woman,
Todd: they didn’t really stretch too hard. They did
Cathy: stretch, but you know, sometimes it’s nice to know who’s singing the songs.
Todd: Yeah, we know as soon as we hear it.
Cathy: Okay. Uh, so that’s my Def Leppard number seven. Okay. Number six is. Uh, by Europe.
Todd: Mm-hmm.
Cathy: Um, and it’s a song called Carrie.
Todd: Mm-hmm. Like Carrie, the girl’s name.
Todd: C-A-R-R-I-E. Okay.
Cathy: And again, all time fave.
Todd: Okay. Um, I thought you were gonna do the one from, um, rest of development.
Cathy: [00:43:00] No, that’s coming later.
Cathy: Yeah. Tuesday. Okay. Okay. That’s Carrie by Europe. Number five is, I had to, I put two people together because I wanted to mention both of ’em. So there was a time when Leeda Ford, who used to be in the band, the Runaways with Joan Jet and, um, cherry Curry, they, she broke out in the eighties and became part of this Hairband thing.
Cathy: Even though she was adjacent, I guess because she wasn’t a male. But I gotta give Li Lita forward some props. She did a, um, duet with Ozzy Osborne, rest in peace, called Close My Forever. Mm. What Chair? Rip Ozzy. Rip Rip. I. That’s why I wanted to add ’em both. Number four, uh, warrant a song called Heaven, um, which I think everybody really liked it.
Cathy: Big slow dance song. Um, I Like Heaven by Brian Adams, right? Different Heaven.[00:44:00]
Todd: This is Off the album. The Best of Warrant Sweetie. How many songs are on the best of warrants?
Cathy: We did the, we had a date like a year ago where you said, name me five warrant songs I remember and I think I was able to get four. Yeah. Do you remember? No. Okay, so number Course not three was, uh, like you, it was Motley Crue Home Sweet Home.
Cathy: Oh, there really? Which was just a great, again, remember guys we’re doing power balls, we’re not doing all the songs. We’re doing power balls. So Home, sweet Home by Motley Crue, 1985, and I’m coming this.
Cathy: All right. Number two. I had a hard time deciding between number one and number two. So number two is a song by Skid Row called I Remember You. Okay. Which transitioned helped me transition from high school to college. It kind of blends in ’cause I liked it [00:45:00] in 1989. It like was, it’s a very core memory for me.
Todd: I kind of like this band. This is Skid Row. I love Skid Row. Just ’cause of the acoustic guitar. Just gimme the acoustic guitar. It’s all,
Cathy: yeah. And you know the lead singer, Sebastian Bach was pretty, is that his real name?
Todd: Because if that’s his real name, that’s outstanding.
Cathy: Sebastian Bach. Yeah, I think so.
Cathy: Sounds like a made up name. Um, but yeah, he was great for MTV, you know, look good. And then my number one, I feel like you’re gonna fight me, but I did my research to make sure this could be what it is. Okay. Okay. Tesla. How’d you know? Oh, I must have sent it to you. Love song by Tesla. I remember this is the best
Todd: song.
Todd: Power valid. What about this version though? Remember this version?
Cathy: Yes, I do. This was in the live version.
Todd: Everybody my freshman year had this album called The Five Man Acoustical. Jan. [00:46:00] Yep. We listen to it all the time, and I think it was before like Unplugged started showing up. So they did their version of Unplugged before Unplugged was a thing.
Cathy: Yeah, so Love Song was great and then Signs was on that too.
Todd: Signs, signs Ever with a Signs. Uh, so
Cathy: those are my top 10 power ballads. All right. And I feel very good. Let’s move on to random facts.
Todd: Can we blend random facts in WTF?
Cathy: Let’s
Todd: do it.
Todd: Boy, that escalated quickly. It did. I mean, that really got outta hand fast. It jumped up a notch. It did, didn’t it? Um, these are just some random things that happened. First of all, uh, these
Cathy: are random. What? Wfs Yeah. These are, we’re blending, there’s a guy
Todd: named Steve Clark. It’s the band’s co guitarist and songwriter.
Todd: He died in 1991 from a mix of alcohol and prescription drugs. I didn’t know that. Okay. Uh, th this should, these people should have been in part two of the one where we did. Of all of those singers that died by drugs and suicide. Yeah.
Cathy: Well, some [00:47:00] of them were. We talked about Janie from Warren. We did talk about some of these singers.
Todd: I got Robin Crossley from Rat Crosby, from Rhet. Uh, he battled addiction and later died of AIDS related complications. In 2002, uh, Kevin Burrow, the front man for Quiet Riot, died in 2007 of a cocaine overdose. Yes. Yikes. Uh, Eric Carr, he was the beloved drummer of kiss. He died of heart cancer.
Cathy: Oh, I didn’t know you
Todd: could have heart cancer.
Cathy: Sure.
Todd: Uh, and Janie Lane, is that what you just said? Janie Lane? Yeah. Um, and then a few other things. Nikki six, uh, kind of died and then they brought him back the light maybe with adrenaline. And then do you know, I have kind of a crush on Nikki Six. He’s a good looking dude. Yeah. Um, and then, um, what about that guy from Def Leppard who got in a car accident and the drummer and he lost his arm?
Todd: Um, and then the last thing is, um, uh, Vince Neil was driving in a car Correct. And, um, was drunk and the guy that was in the car with him died. Yes. The other two people were injured and I don’t think he had, he had to [00:48:00] do very little jail time.
Cathy: Not at all. Really? Yeah.
Todd: So anyways, those are my random facts.
Cathy: You know, sometimes money can help you get outta situations. Yes. Um, but I will say that yes, I, you know, just adding to that story, like the, there was so much chaos in these bands. Like there was so much drinking, there was so much addiction. You know, we could just focus on one band at a time and be like, there’s a, a, you know, million stories and like the Nikki six story that if you guys saw the Motley Crue, um, either the documentary or the fictionalized version of their, of the book that was written about them, um, Nikki Six, the fact that he’s still walking around on this earth, he and Keith Richards are like, how are they still here?
Cathy: Yeah. Like Nikki had died, like you said, like in the ambulance gone and they brought him back. So, um, you know, but he’s, he’s quite attractive to me. Used to be to me. Yeah. It’s just, again, it’s this just interesting how these bands like changed my brain ’cause that’s not what was attractive before. Anyway, then the deaf leopard [00:49:00] drummer, um, when he lost his arm, they built him a drum set where he could just drum with one arm and just do more drumming with his feet.
Cathy: Yep. So that’s pretty incredible too. Pretty sweet. Okay, so my random facts are about hairspray. Okay, let’s talk about it. So, in the eighties, Aquanet sales skyrocketed because of hair bands.
Todd: So girl. So let’s just assume most people who use hairspray were women, women. So did women like Aquanet because Motley Crue was promoting Aquanet or just because their head, their hair was big?
Cathy: It was just the look, I mean, people say it was because of Hairbands, because men were doing it too. So it skyrocketed because you have both, you have all genders using it, right? Mm-hmm. Um, but I also, my hair could not have been bigger. Mm-hmm. Like when we, senior year of high school, I just don’t know what was going on.
Cathy: Mm-hmm. Like it was so big. Everyone’s was, you know, there was nothing weird about it, but I just remember coming to college. And [00:50:00] some people were like me, they were from smaller towns like me. And so like, I remember my friend Laura, the first time I met her, she said she was going to see someone, she’s gonna see her, her hometown boyfriend.
Cathy: And she’s like, I have my three curling errands plugged in. They all were all different sizes ’cause she had to like curl one part, one size, one part. I’m like, okay, this girl is, you know, like me. And then I, you know, my nextdoor neighbor who ended up being one of my, you know, sorority sisters and also I lived with her in Chicago.
Cathy: My next door neighbor, Megan, she had, she put nothing in her hair, she wore no makeup. She was from, you know, the north shore of Chicago. So it was like a totally different look. And I was like, oh my God. Like I was, so by the time the middle of my freshman year of. College, I’d kind of toned it down. Yeah. But my hair was so damaged I had to cut it all off and start over.
Cathy: I know. So sophomore year, I, I didn’t meet you tell later, but I had a really short bob ’cause I had to just start over because it
Todd: was so damaged. What about me being a lob? Maybe get, instead of a bob you get a lob. But
Cathy: then it wouldn’t have gotten all that bad parts off. So it’s just [00:51:00] funny that the transition.
Cathy: But I wanna name for the women who are listening. All the hairsprays that were huge during night. Oh, I like this. You ready? Yep. Rave. Never heard of it. Didn’t use rave, but I know Rave. White rain. Heard of it. White rain was my hairspray. If I smelled white rain right now, I would be catapulted back to those days of the eighties.
Cathy: Uh, number three, final net. Which makes me laugh. ’cause we had aquanet, right? And someone’s like, let’s go with final net.
Todd: Yeah, I got an idea. Because it’s the last thing that you’re gonna have to do to your hair, final nut until you go to bed.
Cathy: Um, Vito Sesso. So Vito Eson came around, totally heard that people were using that hairspray.
Cathy: Um, Paul Mitchell, freeze and shine. Yik. I had some of that. It didn’t hold very well. Remember? Totally. Um, suave. Oh, of course Max Hold. Yep. Some of us like that. Depp. Do you remember Depp? I remember Johnny Depp. Well, Depp had a hairspray and a gel, and the gel was like in this big tub. And then finesse.
Todd: I would use the gel and the spray together and see what happened.
Todd: Get a little crazy. You
Cathy: know [00:52:00] what would happen? Sometimes when I was in high school, I’d run outta hairspray. Like it would, I’d be out. And so I’d use my dad’s. My dad had a hairspray called the dry idea, or No, there was a, a male hairspray consort. He, his was called something the dry, or maybe that was a deodorant.
Cathy: Yeah. But I had to use my dad’s hairspray. So then all day I’d feel like I smelled like a man and it bothered me. Yeah. So
Todd: just the, the did the man
Cathy: hairspray really sell, smell manly. It just didn’t smell like white rain. White rain smelled like chemicals me like it, it just didn’t work for me. Yeah. Um, so anyway, those are some of my random facts.
Cathy: And then let me see if I have any others. Oh, can I say something in the random facts because the floor is yours.
Todd: Yeah. Do you know the new men had weighs eight pounds?
Cathy: I wanna talk about women. Yeah. So there were, so I had to do a little bit of research because I remember when, so Hart, we know the band Hart, Todd and I just went to see Hart in concert last year.
Cathy: [00:53:00] Um, you know, Nancy Wilson and Wilson, they came around in the seventies. They are not a hair brand, so don’t get me wrong, I’m not gonna lump them in. They’re, they’re classic rock. But they definitely had like a look in the eighties. That was mimicking what hairbands look like. I
Todd: feel like they’re the female version of hairbands.
Todd: They are, but I really, because they
Cathy: rocked and they did power ballads. I know, but because they came around in the seventies and theirs was a classic rock sound. Yeah. They just don’t fall into that category.
Todd: We don’t wanna minimize heart by lumping them in with these Correct. Other bands that are not nearly as talented as the two women from Heart.
Cathy: Well
Todd: drop the mic.
Cathy: I mean, that’s what you’re saying. I’m just saying, sweetie,
Todd: you agree with me.
Cathy: I just, I If Heart, if Heart was considered a hairband, their songs would’ve been on more of my lists. Let’s just say that. But they are not, but they kind looked at, I mean, the Never and Alone and, um, all of those songs, and see this was seventies.
Cathy: [00:54:00] I’m surprised you didn’t put on. Never. ’cause that’s our favorite eighties heart song I love. We don’t agree on that. Yep. So, but there was another band called Vixen that came around in the eighties and they had a song, uh, called Edge of a Broken Heart, and it was in 1988 that I really liked. Okay. Um, occasionally it comes on like an eighties channel, you know, and I also follow the Hairband channel.
Cathy: Mm-hmm. This is shocking to, to people. Um, so sometimes Vixen comes on, but I don’t think they really got their due. You know, like we were women didn’t have much of a role in this time. And then, like I said, um, are you gonna play edge of a Broken Heart? You think? I’m not.
Todd: So, so funny seeing these videos because the women and the men look like they’re the same person. Well, they were marketed as
Cathy: the female Bon Jovi. Oh, okay. Like that’s the big, that was the big push for them. Yeah. And then I already mentioned her [00:55:00] because she was in my power ballads, leada Ford, you know, came out.
Cathy: Do you remember Kiss Me Deadly? No, you gotta start, you gotta play that song because we liked that song. We Meaning My Friends and I liked that song. Um, because it was, it was funny that, can you get it from the very beginning?
Todd: Yeah, actually I probably can get
Cathy: it the very beginning because that’s what people liked.
Todd: What did I, I already want what did, what’s the song Kiss Me Deadly. By who? Lead of Ford. Is she the lady that had like, uh, there’s a big hair video and she had like chains around, around her pubic area
Cathy: probably on, no, that was Jane Child.
Todd: Oh, I dunno. Let’s see. Just start.
Cathy: I didn’t get laid. I got in a fight.
Todd: Oh boy.
Cathy: It ain’t no big thing
Todd: sweetie.
Cathy: It ain’t no big
Todd: thing. She didn’t get laid, but she got into a fight.
Cathy: Yeah. Oh, that’s not why she went out.
Todd: That’s, I’d say if you’re gonna gimme a choice between those two, I’d say that that didn’t [00:56:00] go so well. Oh. Um, so some people like to be in fights though. I guess
Cathy: they do there, there are a lot of fights at these shows sometimes, but, so, Leeta Ford, as I said before, she was in a band called The Runaways from the seventies that Joan Jett and, uh, Sherry, uh, cherry Curry were in.
Cathy: And they had one song called Cherry Bomb that I knew. But otherwise, but it’s just kind of cool that the women, they were in there, they just weren’t getting the, you know, the relevance that other, uh, bands were getting. Shocking. This is all shocking to us. Um, did you say Cherry bomb? I did.
Cathy: Ban was girl band. That’s a different cherry bomb. Alright. Did you ever see the Runaways documentary with Kristen Stewart? Todd Negative and I think Dakota Fanning was in it.
Todd: Uh, it was cherry. I did not see that. Okay. So my last, by the way, I, I bought us 15 more minutes, so we’re not up there. The clock.
Cathy: Excellent. Okay, good. So my last WTF, [00:57:00] which you’ll really like is, because you already mentioned it, warrant mm-hmm. Had a song called Cherry Pie. It was actually the title of their album and the cover, and that was, if you remember correctly, the Cherry Pie was supposed to mimic her vagina. Right. Um, Janie Lane, who wrote this song, the label said, we need one more song.
Cathy: We just need one more hit. So he wrote this in 15 minutes.
Todd: Well, for some reason, I, I, and she licked the.
Todd: So I feel like they’re, I, I, I listen to a music podcast with that guy from Cleveland who’s on the Ringer, I forget his name. And I think they like interviewed this guy and he just is not happy this song, because everybody identifies like encapsulates everything who he is in, in this song. And he is like, this is such an outlier of everything we’ve done.
Todd: And this is the only thing people, and he’s not Jean Lane’s dead. Oh, maybe [00:58:00] I’m thinking of somebody else though.
Cathy: Yeah. I don’t think he, I think he’s the lead singer. The lead singer Warrant died. Okay. But I just think it’s funny that they worked so hard on this album and then they’re like, we need one more song.
Cathy: Yeah. And then War had this thing that they did where the beginning of their songs, it would like fade in. Mm-hmm. Like it would, like, you’d hear it really distant. Mm-hmm. And all, all of a sudden it would like be really loud. Can you play the, really the beginning of Cherry Pie? Can you go to like YouTube and find the very beginning of it so people know what I mean?
Cathy: But I just think it’s interesting that. Um, this became the most popular song and he wrote it in 15 minutes.
Cathy: So that’s, that was kind of their thing. They would like, a song would like come up. They didn’t just do that in Cherry Pie, they did that in Down Boys and a bunch of other songs. But anyway, so 15 Minutes Babe.
Todd: Mm-hmm. Only [00:59:00] takes 15 minutes to write it. Jane, Jane Lane le later resented it in interviews. He admitted he grew to dislike Cherry Pie because it overshadowed the rest of their work.
Todd: He famously said I could shoot myself in the head for writing that song. I, I hate that song.
Cathy: Oh, Janie.
Todd: Yeah. Did he die by suicide or drug overdose? I
Cathy: think it was a, a drug overdose. I don’t remember. Okay. But we talked about him on the show that we talked about nineties music. Okay. So WTFI think, um, I can skip over that.
Cathy: Let’s, let’s go. Rolling in the deep, uh, Zen Parenting.
Todd: Oh yeah. Hold on.
Cathy: You’re getting better at like, um, I’m getting there, you know, moving those together. Um, so this show for me was kind of just fun as far as like, I like to talk about this music ’cause when will I ever get a chance to do this, right? These are like, these are like things that when I think about something fun, I’d wanna do this is.
Cathy: This is one of them. This is sweetie having fun. So, but I’m gonna do a little bit of rolling in the deep, I’m not gonna spend a lot of time here, but [01:00:00] there is some emotional depth to the fact that this was music we grew up with and the glam rock and everything. So again, as we said, hairbands were a total paradox.
Cathy: Um, they looked like they were subverting gender norms, but we’re actually completely reinforcing them. Let’s be real. So all their makeup and everything, they’re borrowing from femininity, but only because they were, their whole thing was about women chasing. Yeah. You know what I mean? It was so interesting, like, now looking back on it.
Cathy: So, so their style was ki like a type of freedom, but it was like safe rebellion. Mm-hmm. Like they still stayed within this kind of, this box. They could play with gender aesthetics, but they were still, it was total heteronormativity. Yeah. Like there was heteronormativity, um, you know, every song was about getting with a woman.
Cathy: I mean, cherry pie is all about, you know, a woman’s body parts. Yeah. I mean, come. Um, so in a way, the hairbands were all about a masculinity that is a type of performance. I mean, that’s why we’re talking about performative masculinity, because [01:01:00] these bands were like, regardless of who we are, here’s how we look.
Cathy: We drink a lot of alcohol on stage and we chase women. And we’re violence sometimes. And a lot of drugs. And a lot of drugs. So it was all just about costumes. Yeah, it was like they were tough. They were, you know, the, what they found, and I think you heard this too, in the, um. Documentary you were listening to, but power ballads were really the things that sold.
Cathy: Yeah. Right. They’re the things that made money. Sure. So they had to like, they had to do power ballots because that’s the way that they brought attention. They were less marketable without Correct. So they had this tough but vulnerable balance in their music. ’cause the power ballad was what brought people in.
Cathy: And then they tried to do like party anthem kind of songs. Um, you know, and they, so the power battle, like, that’s why I kind of laugh at Cinderellas, don’t Know What You Got Till It’s Gone. Because I remember the first time I heard it and I, I put it on my list of top 10. I really liked the Cinderella album.
Cathy: I had it, but I remember being like, his voice does not work in this song. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like, [01:02:00] I, it just was, I don’t know
Todd: for the record, I don’t know what you mean. ’cause I can’t even think of the song.
Cathy: I know. But, um, you know, whatever. So anyway, um, let’s see if there’s anything else I wanna say about it.
Cathy: Um, you know, so much over exposure, you know, like, I think one thing that, you know. What we’ve gone through as a culture, like us Gen Xers is the changing masculinity norms, like how it’s looked in culture and how it’s just interesting right now how we’re, we’re trying to come back to something so heteronormative when our, our generation has been all over the map.
Cathy: Sure. Like what are we doing? Like we’ve expanded and accepted and idolized so many different icons who are gender fluid and you know, so many guys that I grew up with, like, yeah, my guys, my guy friends, like classic rock and everything, but so many of them loved this music ’cause it was like hard rocking and they could accept [01:03:00] it.
Cathy: And then we were just so weird as a culture about how now that’s like, bad and wrong and it scares us. And, and really this has been around forever. Yeah. You know, like all of these, this fluidity, um. And again, we already, I kind of feel like a lot of this I, I am, I’m gonna move on to parental guidance’s.
Cathy: What I’m do, let’s do that.
Todd: Like you my cats in the grade, I’m assuming.
Cathy: All right. What do you got? So, just a few things about, um, parenting. I think that one thing that I took from it, I’ll just speak to myself, is one thing I’ve learned in music was how trends change really fast. Sure. And how you don’t wanna get too focused on one kind of anything.
Cathy: Mm-hmm. Because, and, and the reason I’m bringing this up is I just wrote about last week in my substack. That you and [01:04:00] I made a conscious choice when we started Zen Parenting, to not call it gentle parenting, conscious parenting, um, attachment parenting, all these really buzzy words that were out there over the 15 years that, you know, I’ve been a therapist and that you’ve been a coach and that we were doing a podcast because I knew they would go away.
Cathy: Mm-hmm. Not only did I know they would go away and become old, but I knew people would attack them. Yeah. And I think when you try and jump into something and then claim it as yours, like, I, like I’m an attachment parent, parent, you are gonna find 80 podcasts talking about why that’s bad, why that’s hurting people.
Cathy: Like I read an article, um, a couple weeks ago on Substack about why Dr. Becky’s, um, good inside is bad. And I, I get it. I get that people feel the need to critique and to break apart, but. These kind of things about finding a trend and then break, you know, and then [01:05:00] people jump on it and then we like diminish it, I think is, um, it’s very our culture, but it keeps us from being curious.
Cathy: Right. Yeah. What are the common elements, like when you, I have no problem talking about gentle parenting. Attachment parenting, conscious parenting. I, there’s parts of it that make total sense, but when you make it everything, then you quit being curious. Yeah. You quit thinking that other things can be possible.
Cathy: And I said that we chose Zen parenting on purpose because Zen. You can’t define it, and the word is undefinable. It’s like, that’s the whole point. And like I, we’ve never claimed to be Zen masters. We are not the teachers of Zen. We are talking about undefinable parenting. Mm-hmm. It’s a paradox. Zen means everything changes.
Cathy: Zen means everything’s uncertain. Zen means pay attention. And so that’s what you and I have been doing, and it’s allowed us to go in 80 different ways.
Todd: So we should call it paid attention, pay attention [01:06:00] parenting
Cathy: maybe.
Todd: Um, but
Cathy: then someone would’ve been like, of
Todd: course that’s wrong. Yeah. You’re paying too much attention.
Todd: Exactly. Um, so I don’t know if this is the right time to play this, but I found a little YouTube clip of mostly guys in Def Leppard reacting to grunge.
Cathy: Oh, I’d love to hear it. And,
Todd: and it kind of, uh, speaks to Yeah.
Cathy: What we’re talking about. So
Todd: the first one is your boyfriend, Nikki. Six.
Cathy: He’s in Motley Crew.
Todd: I met Molly Crew.
Cathy: Okay. You get this
Todd: kind of dinosaur music mentality going on. Everybody looks on the same. Everybody sounds the same. We’re getting into that again, which is everything that that punk rebelled against in the seventies. I think it’s time for a revolution of musical revolution. So someone’s gotta do something original here they didn’t like.
Todd: So first of all, that was Nick. Who was saying that? Nick? It was Nick six.
Cathy: Nick six was saying that
Todd: and he was saying he’s like sick of the eighties glam. Okay. It like everybody was doing the same thing. Got it. And he was like asking for somebody to come and shake things up. Got it. Good for you, Nikki. Now here comes Vince, me.[01:07:00]
Todd: Oh shit. This is so good. I like it. I still don’t like it. I never understood about singing about how your life is when everybody knows their lives are the next generation was more about, you know, teen angst and you know, I hate my parents rather than let’s go out and have some fun and chicks.
Cathy: That’s exactly what we’re saying.
Todd: And now here’s uh, Tommy Lee. Okay, welcome to that. With the biggest open arms on the planet. I was like, yes. Somebody’s fucking stirring it up. Everything just sounding the same. And I love it when someone throws a fucking grenade into the mix and goes, Nope, we’re going this way. And dude, I love that. And then, you know, then sound guarding.
Todd: I don’t mean to. So, um, that was Tommy Lee, which is interesting. Like all these guys would be like, God, I’m so sick of this music.
Cathy: Well, Todd not only did one thing that we heard in the documentary is these guys, these bands all used the same stylist. Yeah. [01:08:00] So they even sometimes had the exact same outfits.
Todd: It was completely homogenized. It was so homogenized. But this is the last one. And it’s funny, the more I hear from Brett Michaels, I think he’s just a really thoughtful, smart. And
Cathy: he could write music
Todd: and he could write some good songs. And he’s
Cathy: the lead singer of, uh, poison.
Todd: And we haven’t really talked about Poison.
Todd: Som gonna get him a little bit of better in a bad way. You know, you take Cobain, some of those bands were that, that era of music was really depressing, but some of those guys were, and obviously by his death is. We’re really depressed. Yeah. Right. Faking that depression. Right, right. Ton was, was deep. And, and it’s a shame because he had great music, but here’s the thing, a lot of that error completely died too.
Todd: It just didn’t get as beat up as our error. Yeah. Yeah. You’re gonna live big. Meaning, if you’re gonna live excessive, you also gonna remember you’re gonna take that beating when it comes down. The one thing we did when, when the, the whole music changed Right. Or what was happening then, you know, changed a bit.
Todd: Our band never went in and said we hated what we did. Right. And the mistake the bands of the eighties made a lot of them. [01:09:00] Mm-hmm. Every one of ’em was like, I was never in that band. I, and that’s a disc of the themes. 1992. All right.
Cathy: Okay, Brett. Yeah. Right. I’m clapping it up and snapping it up. Because everything he said is exactly right.
Cathy: We did a whole show on how, you know, everything in grunge was the raw authenticity of their depression. Mm-hmm. And that they, their, you know. Producers or whatever, they capitalized on that. Sure. And they kept them in that bubble of like, they didn’t feel like they could get help. They didn’t feel like, you know, they could write music unless they felt this way or regardless of that it wouldn’t sell unless they were talking about these things.
Cathy: Yeah. And so, like there, uh, record labels were like allowing this. And then our whole show was about how every front man mm-hmm. Of the nineties grunge bands have died. Mm-hmm. Except for Eddie Veder. Yeah. And so Brett Michaels is exactly right. Like, they, they were depressed and so it was [01:10:00] raw, but, and then I’m also like, I, I’m not saying I’m like Brett Michaels, but that’s what I mean is like, I have never.
Cathy: Ever been like, oh yeah, that music, that music sucked. I moved into grunge and then I, I like pop and I like all the classic rock and I like Backstreet Boys. I like all of it, but I also am like, yeah, I liked hair bands and I don’t feel embarrassed by that. Do you know what I mean? And I know that it’s not everyone’s favorite music, but I also feel like you like what you like.
Todd: That’s a little preview for next week. Yeah. We’re, we’re just gonna play this in a loop the whole time.
Cathy: But see, you could, but you know, I love all their songs. Like that’s what everybody else likes is tell me why or, you know.
Todd: So anyway. Okay, we got 10 minutes left. That’s it. That’s it, babe.
Cathy: Oh my God.
Todd: Start with whatever you think is most important.
Cathy: Okay. So. What did it teach us? I’m gonna just do a really quick wrap up of [01:11:00] what did it teach us? Okay.
Todd: Okay, go ahead.
Cathy: So basically, I am not gonna talk about everything I’m gonna say. I watched a e True Hollywood story about Poison. Brett Michaels solo episode, Motley Crew, Bon Jovi, and Def Leppard, and all of it was about how Fd up they were.
Cathy: Yeah. Okay. Then I went to the VH one and I watched it behind the music about Poison, Molly Crewe, Def Leppard, Bon Jovi, warrant, skid Row, quiet Riot, twisted Sister Rat and Great White, which do you remember that big, uh, fire? Yeah, I do. When Great White explained. I do. Yeah. And all I, I learned so much from behind the music and, and the E True Hollywood stories that.
Cathy: That’s what I got taught is don’t do what they were doing as far as the chaos. Yeah. Um, so the, what it taught, I, I won’t even go into that. Let’s go into the best hairband songs of all time. Let’s do
Todd: that. Okay. You do your top ten first. Um, okay. Uh, best, uh, uh, once again, I’m not as, uh, I’m gonna be very, [01:12:00] um, popular here.
Todd: I’m gonna start with my favorite number
Cathy: 10, or no? Why are you starting from number one? I’m gonna, the whole thing of a list is you build up to the number one. I’m
Todd: just going to just, I’m just gonna give you my top one.
Cathy: Okay.
Todd: Hold on. I gotta pull it up. Come on. No, because sweetie, this is your territory.
Todd: Okay. All right. All right. So we’re just gonna go ahead and I’m gonna.
Todd: That’s it. Especially since we have eight minutes left. Okay. So I don’t wanna take up bandwidth.
Cathy: Okay. I appreciate it. And I’m gonna go through this list. If you can keep up with me and play a little bit of each song and do my best. And I wanna say that this was really hard, of course. Like I spent like an hour last night, and again, this is mine.
Todd: Mine wasn’t that difficult.
Cathy: Mine was about my, I went through my [01:13:00] playlists in my phone. Mm-hmm. And I said, which songs am I still listening to? Mm-hmm. So instead of being like, you know mm-hmm. New or different, I’m like, these are the songs I’m still listening to. So number 10. Mm-hmm. Sweetie is Job’s song.
Cathy: Mm-hmm. It is Final Countdown by your.
Cathy: And part of the reason this is still in my phone is because it’s had a life after the eighties. Yes, it was used in Arrested development brilliantly and other people use it in their concerts and et cetera. So Europe crushing with that song were they from Europe? I don’t know why they call themselves Europe.
Cathy: Number nine, warrant Down Boys, which didn’t get the credit it should have
Cathy: down Boys. That was my introduction to warrant and I loved this song. Number eight, skid Row 18 in Life. What is that song about? It’s about going to prison. Oh [01:14:00] dear. 18 in life. That’s terrible. I know. It was 1989 I think when this came out and um, it’s a sad song, but I loved it. Your crime is time.
Cathy: Okay. Number seven. This is what Todd and I fight about a lot. What’s the best Motley Crue song? I can’t believe you didn’t
Todd: put
Cathy: my
Todd: best song in your
Cathy: top 10. I did not do Kickstart My Heart. Dr. Feel Good has the best intro drum intro to any song that I can think of. Wow. Um, so Dr. Feel Good by Motley Crue?
Cathy: Hold on. I think I’m playing the full album, which isn’t what we want. We just want the song
Cathy: Tommy Lee spinning around on the stage with his drum kit. Come on. Okay. Number six. This is actually, could be considered a power ballad, but I still put it [01:15:00] in my best hair band songs of all time. Wanted Dead or Alive by Bon Jovi. I’ve heard of that one.
Todd: You know it. That would probably be in my top five.
Todd: Just the acoustic version though. Not, yes, not this. Uh oh, good.
Cathy: And that’s when I really started to pay attention to Richie Sambora. ’cause he had his little wanted in it. And so we’re like, who’s singing that? And it was Richie. And then when we saw Bon Jovi about 10 years ago. Richie wasn’t there. No, he wasn’t in the band. We’re like, where’s Richie? Yeah. It was very confusing.
Cathy: Okay. Number five is a song that, um, I was obsessed with in college. It’s by firehouse. It’s called Don’t Treat Me Bad.
Cathy: Oh, I know this song. Thanks. What, uh, I would, um, this song was really important to me and usually at every formal or event when we had music, someone would play that. Mm-hmm. And we would get on chairs. I gave a will [01:16:00] away called Don’t Treat Me Bad, will, if anyone’s in a sorority, you know what wills are.
Cathy: Anyway, number four, one of the best songs of all time. We started the show with it. Here I go again by White Snake.
Todd: I’ve heard of this one, Tony Cat.
Cathy: I don’t think they stayed married, did they? No. Honey. I don’t think it worked out. No. I think she ended up with a picture and,
Todd: and she abused him? She did. He, she, I think she got charged against for assault.
Cathy: Yes. Okay. Number three. I’m bringing Tesla back in. Yes. With one of their original songs called Little Susie that I always really liked and it has stayed on my playlist for the past 30, however many years.
Cathy: Okay. Let’s hear this one.
Cathy: Eh, I kinda like Tesla. Me too. I love his voice. Okay. Top two songs. These are the ones I listened to the most. You ready? [01:17:00]
Todd: I am nervous and scared.
Cathy: Number two is my Getting Arrested song by Rat Round and round.
Todd: Yes. You got some stories.
Cathy: It’s sad. Okay.
Todd: What’s the song about, by the way?
Cathy: Uh, uh, relationship, you know, I mean, it’s not deep.
Todd: Oh, you want me
Cathy: to sing the words for you?
Todd: No. Okay. I, I wanna like let the listener give ’em a second to have them guess what they think your number one is. They’re never gonna guess
Cathy: it.
Todd: You’re probably right.
Todd: Do you want me to just play it or do you want me to say it? Say
Cathy: this? The reason I chose this as my number one is because this song, um, I have from this band, I have so many songs on my playlist, but anytime someone asks me from this band, what is your favorite song by them, it is definitely this and it, it, it was in high school, it was in college.
Cathy: And when I find people who like this song, [01:18:00] like my friend Laura, um, we bond over it. So this is Armageddon. It by Def Lepp, I feel like a dj.
Cathy: You got it. I love that song. I love Are kidding. It builds too, and it gets to the end when it’s like. Ooh. And get, and you know what’s really sad is Def Leppard was not on streaming for a very, very, very long time. And even now, if you, some of their songs, you can only find them live. I don’t know what happened there.
Cathy: Um, with their streaming, whatever, but yeah, they, you couldn’t find their music. Yeah. So anyway, um, those are my top 10. Todd only has one. Um, but I appreciate talking about this ’cause it was just really fun for me to, like, we gotta
Todd: do our music thing real quick.
Cathy: Okay. Tell me,
Todd: um,
Cathy: okay. The music thing, meaning trivia?
Todd: No, no. We’re skipping [01:19:00] over trivia.
Cathy: Okay. Oh, I didn’t choose a music song.
Todd: Oh, you didn’t?
Cathy: I didn’t. ‘
Todd: cause that means I’m gonna win. Okay. All right. Go ahead. So it’s just
Todd: around you have grown and accept it. That soon you’ll beed to the bone, give you time. You with saving. You better start swimming or you’ll sink like a stone. Other times they changing. Sweetie Bon Jovi kept swimming and they did not sink like a stone. Def Leppard. Def Leppard, they, they tread water a little bit.
Cathy: Let me talk about the hole in my heart.
Todd: You got one
Cathy: minute last summer.
Todd: Mm-hmm.
Cathy: Uh, Def Leppard journey and Steve Miller Band. We’re at Wrigley Field. I went, it was amazing. Mm-hmm. My heart is, is very whole now. So, Todd, thank you for talking about hair bands with us, with me. It was fun. Uh, next week is, um, performative [01:20:00] masculinity and boy band.
Cathy: Yeah. So if you are an nsync, 98 Degrees Backstreet Boys, boys to Men person, let’s go. Let’s do this.
Cathy: See
Todd: you guys next week. Keep trucking.
Cathy: Oh.
Round two. Change a little bit. And change a little bit. Pretty pleasant.